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Audi S4 vs BMW M3

275 messages,  Last post on Nov 17, 2008 at 12:27 PM

You are in the Audi S4 Forum.

What is this discussion about? Audi S4, BMW M3, Sedan

Messages Page 19 of 29

#173 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [m3_r1] by _matty

Nov 28, 2005 (8:40 pm)

Replying to: m3_r1 (Nov 28, 2005 8:49 am)
Thanks for showing how some of the S4 crowd uses distorted facts and subjective web sites to build up the inferior S4.
 
If you would have bothered to READ my post you would have noticed that I got all of my #'s from edmunds.com! If it's a subjective website then why are you here?
 
I can't believe that this guy posted a message stating the M3 weighs more than the S4.
 
Again, if you would have bothered to read my post you would have noticed that I retracted what I first said when I realised that edmunds.com put GVW for the M3 and curb weight for the S4 in the same place. Again, MY BAD, I didn't catch it. I was not trying to be misleading, so stop making false accusations. Frankly, I was surprised when I found those #'s because I expected the 4 door S4 to weigh more simply because it's a 4 door and the cars are comparable in size.
 
As of November 28, 2005 the Yellow S4 is still on their lot for sale.
 
It probably has something to do with the car being yellow which is the ugliest possible color for a car next to orange (in my opinion).
 
Actually Consumer Reports said that the S4 had better fuel economy
 
Edmunds.com says that the M3 has better fuel economy. I don't expect you to believe me though, go look it up yourself. While you're at it, check out the vehicle weight #'s and you may see why I made the honest mistake that I made.
 
M3= 16/24
S4= 15/22-23
 
I can really care less what consumer reports says. If I want a washing machine I'll consult them, but they're biased just like you are when it comes to nice cars. See, both the M3 and the S4 are nice cars. I have no problem admitting that. It happens to snow where I live and I would much rather have an AWD for obvious reasons so I'm not on my knees in the snow slapping on chains all the time like you would be with your M3. I also prefer a 4 door car for obvious reasons like convenience. I also prefer a V8 over a V6. I like the torque and I like the sound of a V8 and nothing that you say is going to convince me otherwise.
 
Grow up bknblk and stop being a rude, arrogant jerk. Try reading posts instead of berating people simply because they don't worship BMW's like you do. You're making all BMW drivers look bad with your childish remarks and petty insults. Much of what you're saying is opinion just like some of what Consumer Reports says is opinion based on unavoidable human bias. I make my own decisions and I have never and will never let someone or some magazine make them for me. I test drove an M3 before I bought my S4 because I wanted to keep an open mind. I didn't like the fact that it was a 2 door, I didn't like the whiny 6 cylinder engine, I didn't like the fact that it was only a 2WD because of snow issues where I live and I especially didn't like the extra $10,000 on the price tag because there's absolutely no justification for it. Also, I have never had any reliability issues with my S4. I take major issue with Consumer Reports living in the past and basing their reliability speech about the S4 on older models that are completely different from the S4's made after 2004. That means absolutely nothing to me because it's irrelevant to the discussion.

#174 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [bknblk] by bhamms

Nov 28, 2005 (9:05 pm)

Replying to: bknblk (Nov 28, 2005 6:01 pm)
you are confusing demand with discerning tastes. there is plenty of demand , its just not the generic mind numbing herd mentality demand like BMW has grown accustom to. Please do us all a favor and wipe off your make up and crawl back in your Mcmansion. And BTW don't even start in with that C32 junk. i have seen better looking go-carts than that car.

#175 of 275 Whew by merc1

Nov 29, 2005 (1:29 am)

And I thought we had some lively discussions on the High-End and Luxury Performance Sedans boards!
 
I think both cars are winners for being what they are. However comparing the two head-on really doesn't make much sense to me because of the vast differences between them.
 
The S4 IMO, is a better real-world choice due to being a sedan and AWD. The S4 is like any other Audi, wonderful interior and styling, but not nearly as viseral as a BMW, especially a Motorsport model. The Audi is superior everyday choice, especially when the weather turns foul.
 
The M3 on the other hand is vastly superior on a track and just in its "sportiness". The I6, 50/50 weight distribution and so on equal a superior sporty car for the hard-core enthusiast.
 
Both of these cars are winners in my book. One a just a superior day to day touring car with great all year capability and the other is a track car detuned just enough for life on the street.
 
Not saying it is "better", but I'd take an RS4 over anything being talked about here.
 
M

#176 of 275 This is getting way too personal by pat

Nov 29, 2005 (4:59 am)

I don't see that there is anything useful being discussed here lately.
 
If anyone wants to continue this comparison, we need to have some civil conversation on the merits and faults of both of these vehicles and discontinue the personal comments right now.

#177 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [_matty] by m3_r1

Nov 29, 2005 (10:16 am)

Replying to: _matty (Nov 28, 2005 8:40 pm)
Wether you like it or not Consumer Reports is basically the ONLY OBJECTIVE source for consumer goods that does not rely on nor accepts advertisement from business. Millions rely on this consumer agency to provide honest unbiased non subjective opinions on any product sold in the US. Many auto publications admit that their ratings involve personal preference and taste. So if Consumer Reports determined that the M3 is superior to the S4 and it's the only car in the comparison test to meet their standards, why is it that some S4 owners feel the need to somehow dismiss or down play their unbiased opinion. As I see it this debate is settled. Clearly the M3 has better reliability, superior resale value, is much more in demand and has set the standard for luxury performance cars. Personally, I have nothing against the S4. If you drive that car and you are happy with it then good for you. It's not my choice for the reasons stated over and over again. Audi has a long way to go before it can be seriously seen as a viable contender with BMW. For some strange reason Audi can't seem to find it's identity. Look at the changes in how the grill is now much larger than before. Audi representatives admit that they are seeking to set an image that people easily associate with the car company. Take the S4 name. Will it be S4 or RS4? I certainly hope they make up their minds and settle on names and images. You don't see such confusion with BMW or Mercedes. A BMW 3, 5, or 7 series has been just that for many years. Audi on the other hand seems to change models with each decade. Remember the Audi 5000? We no longer see it and I won't get into why (If I did S4 owners would like me even less). What about the Audi 80, 90? Where did they go? No doubt car models come and go with each car maker, but not every decade. Model evolution is one thing confusion is another. Perhaps in 10 or 20 years Audi will be more reliable and perhaps a suitable contender to it's big brothers in Germany.
Remember, reply with (if possible) facts and try not to take it so personal. Before I forget, the comment about my being upset because someone drove off with girl friend an an S4 (LOL). My girl friend was with me when I checked out the S4 in Atlanta and needless to say she wasn't impressed. So I doubt that anyone could drive her away in one

#178 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [m3_r1] by _matty

Nov 29, 2005 (12:33 pm)

Replying to: m3_r1 (Nov 29, 2005 10:16 am)
My main issue with Consumer Reports with respect to the S4 is that they base their reliability statements on older models that share very little in common with the new S4's.
 
A more correct statement would be- We can't make reliability statements because there is no data on current models to back it up. Now, if there were reliability issues with the new S4's (2004+) that would be a MAJOR red flag given that the car is so new and no car should be breaking down so soon after purchase. The moral of this story is that the past does not necessarily predict the future and I see no validity in their complaints about reliability of newer S4's based on older and completely different models.
 
The other thing I've been noticing lately about Consumer Reports, mainly because some here have been throwing it in my face, is that their data about a certain car seems to differ from what other websites are saying. Edmunds.com gives slightly different numbers with respect to gas mileage for the S4. Does that mean edmunds.com is subjective? I think not. In fact, I believe that edmunds.com is every bit as objective and on the level as Consumer Reports claims to be. Does someone here feel differently? For example, edmunds.com says the M3 gets slightly better gas mileage while CP says the S4 gets slightly better gas mileage.
 
Remember, reply with (if possible) facts and try not to take it so personal.
 
If you read my previous posts, I was and I will keep trying to be as factual as possible. Someone else whose name I won't mention started in with the personal attacks. I'm only interested in information and I do want to hear people's opinions or I wouldn't be spending any time here at all. I test drove both cars plenty and I liked things about both of them. They are both nice cars, but I chose the S4 because it suits my needs better than the M3. I'm sorry if my choice offended someone here and made them feel like they had to berate other people (and not just me) because of my preference.

#179 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [_matty] by m3_r1

Nov 29, 2005 (1:47 pm)

Replying to: _matty (Nov 29, 2005 12:33 pm)
If you take the time to read the Consumer Reports issue between the BMW M3, Audi S4, Pontiac GTO and the
Cadillac CTS V, you will see that all of the models were of the same year. Consumer Reports would not use a older car from one brand to compare to a newer car of another brand. Consumer Reports seeks to have a level playing field when testing any product. I'm sure those of you who drive Audi's are proud of your cars and you should be. If you plan to keep the cars and never sell it you may only have to deal with some quality issues. If you are lucky you won't have to visit the service department at all. Just be prepared fo a reality check if you decide to trade in your S4. I would not buy that car for the same reasons I would no longer buy an american made car. American cars simply don't hold value on the used car market compared to imports. In 2003 I purchased a new Ford Focus SVT. The car was awesome and I regret I had to sell it. The problem with the SVT was it did not hold value compared to the Honda Civic SI. Therefore I had to sell it as soon as possible to cut my depreciation loss. This is the same problem with Audi. For years Audi has had SERIOUS quality issues with it's cars therefore when compared with an M3 (which are virtually priced the same new) the difference in value is at least $10,000 on the used car market. You simply can't justify that big of a difference with all wheel drive or V8 engines. As I said before Audi may someday get it's act together and produce quality cars. But for now the facts speak for themselves.

#180 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [m3_r1] by _matty

Nov 29, 2005 (2:15 pm)

Replying to: m3_r1 (Nov 29, 2005 1:47 pm)
Thanks for the info. I'll check out the article, but my question still remains. How can Consumer Reports claim that the new Audi's have reliability issues? Are they not basing that statement on older models? It seems to me that CP is basing that statement on older vehicles and using that info to make judgements about the new Audi's claiming they will have the same reliability issues. I think that argument is somewhat flawed.
 
I hear you with respect to the resale value though.
 
when compared with an M3 (which are virtually priced the same new)
 
Hmm, I compared the price of the M3 and S4 on edmunds.com and got #'s that were not the same. The M3 costs substantially more with comparable options. If you include things like the competition package and the cool gearbox you're talking about a $10,000+ difference. Check it out. Even without those options there is still a difference of several thousand dollars, mainly because the S4 comes with several standard features that total an extra $3,000 in the BMW. That may offset some of the resale issues, but I agree that Audi's have a lower resale value. Good enough, I'll try to use that fact as leverage when I bargain for my '06 S4 at the end of the year. Better yet, I may just buy one used and save some $$$.

#181 of 275 darn confising cars by dhamilton

Nov 29, 2005 (8:18 pm)

I hear you on the confusing car name part. s4 or rs4, It's very misleading. 325 or 330, x3 2.5 or 3.0. Oh my gosh I think my head will explode. Listen we are all subtly berating each other for our taste {or lack thereoff} in cars. Let's continue to have fun with each other. Like for instance, here's this guy trumpeting the reliability of one german car over another. Meanwhile some executive at Acura, or Lexus is laughing his ass off. By the way, in Germany Audi sells more cars than bmw or benz.
 I think consumer reports is good at what they do, but I will look at serious driver enthisiasts rags for a more reliable report on the dynamic of cars. Which is why were all here right. Because we all know that a car is more than what's reliable or a good deal. It speaks to us somewhere in our gut where our senses of humor used to live. Let's all regain that. It's easier to regrow than my hairline
 I'd like to leave you all one thought for the da
"THE M3 SSSSSSSSUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSS"
 Just kidding.....or am I?

#182 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [_matty] by m3_r1

Nov 29, 2005 (8:52 pm)

Replying to: _matty (Nov 29, 2005 2:15 pm)
I personally checked out an Audi Dealer on a previous trip to Atlanta. This dealer had about 6 S4's on the lot with various options. All the S4's had a a sticker price beginning at $51,000. Regardless of the history with this car it does not sell cheap. This is exactly what you would pay for a same model year M3. The down side is if you should ever decide to trade the S4 in. A web site might give basic info on what the car should cost. However, dealers will not sell any of their performance cars cheap wether its BMW M series, Mercedes AMG, or
Audi S's. As to why Consumer Reports gives the S4 a poor rating is basically due to the history the A4 model which is the same platform for the S4. In comparison the BMW 3 series is rated high by Consumer Reports due to it's history of being reliable. Audi will have to show that it is serious about establishing itself not only as a alternative to BMW in performance but quality also. So far the latter has not happened.

Messages Page 19 of 29

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