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Sedans Audi S4 Audi S4 vs BMW M3
275 messages, Last post on Nov 17, 2008 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Audi S4 Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
| I think the difficulty in dealing with them is due to their stranglehold on the market. When I lived in LA, any auto maker had a direct competitor just a couple miles away, so there was a lot more room to negotiate. Here in the metro area, I only know of one true BMW dealer. And they are notorious for playing with finance rates, etc. | |
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Replying to: m3_r1 (Oct 12, 2005 7:48 am) The M3 might have a sportier feel and look better than some of other Bimmers. But the current 5 and 7 series cars leave you with a somewhat cold and cheap look for a high-end car. And a majority of the automotive publications you'll read out there as well have commented on BMW's "lackluster" interiors. Afraid of taking your car out in bad weather? If you spend 50-60k on a high performance car, you shouldn't need a second car unless you can afford it. A lot of people only want or need to have (1) car. The S4 is an all-weather machine. Nearly 1/4 of the country lives in conditions that have some type of snow, slush, or harsh weather. So it's a reallity that all wheel drive is a big plus for a lot of people if they have only 1 car. The M3 is a very fine car in it's own right, and the debate will rage on about M3 vs S4. Both cars have their own pluses and minuses, and it's not a bad choice to get either one.
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Replying to: rjlaero (Oct 12, 2005 10:21 am)
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Replying to: m3_r1 (Oct 14, 2005 5:49 am) But anybody who says the fit, finish, and overall appearance of BMW's...especially the 5 and 7 series is crazy. Virtually every automotive magazine has questioned the once clean and classy Bimmers of the late 80's and most of the 90's, only to get "Bangelized" the last 1/2 decade. I've been subscribing to Car and Driver for close to 20 years, and the reviews for BMW products the last 1/2 decade has been average at best. One of the last comments from a writer was that he was glad the BMW 5 series was fun to drive and it got him to his destination quicky, but he was thankfull he didn't have to spend too much time in the cars dreary interior. Nobody really praises BMW for their interiors. And please, lets not even go into IDrive, as it's one of the poorest designs of any auto manufacturer. SMG vs, DSG? Don't go there, either. Audi has never been the darling of reliablity, so I won't go there. But the A4's have always been one of Audi's most reliable cars, and they are on consumer reports best pick list for 2005. Audi as a whole has made leaps and bounds in terms of quality and reliablity over the last decade, but it seems that BMW and Mercedes are going in the opposite direction. The 3 series cars fare much better like the A4's, but don't even talk about reliablity and overall quality for the 5 and 7 series via "consumer reports". The same with Mercedes for their C class, E class, and S class. They are average at best and bordeline horrible at times. BMW ruled the 80's & 90's, but Audi has the best looking and stongest lineup they've ever had. And arguably a better line-up than either BMW or Mercedes right now. From the A3, A4, A6, A8, there ain't a weak chain in the link anymore. The brutal 414hp RS4 is on the way, and the V10 S6 and S8's are coming next year. It's good to be Audi right now. |
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Replying to: m3_r1 (Oct 14, 2005 5:49 am) I did some thorough due diligence as well, and though all these cars are excellent, the Audi S4 seemed to take the cake; read the following: http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0308_sport/ Check out this auto enthusiast's comprehensive assessment of both cars. Pay particular attention to the "last words" copied below: http://www.epinions.com/content_139324919428 "Last Words This was a shocking test drive, to put it mildly. I expected a more user-friendly drivetrain, and I especially expected livelier handling. As it stands, not only is the Audi S4 a more practical car with a more stylish, more comfortable interior, but it is also more fun to drive. Among $50,000 high-performance luxury cars, the Audi is the easy choice. The next M3 will likely have a V8 with 400 or so horsepower. But power is the least of the car’s problems. The car’s steering and handling require much more urgent attention. The M3 might not be breaking a sweat in most driving on public roads, but it should at least pretend to be enjoying the trip. As it is, it feels musclebound, strong but inflexible." Also, consult consumer reports. The S4 and the M3 are both recommended vehicles. |
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Replying to: rjlaero (Oct 14, 2005 11:21 am) The current sales figures seem to indicate the buying public as opposed to the critical journalists like the car. So while one can point to the magazine articles to support a position the cars are cheap, their crap, they don't drive well, BMWs are indeed doing better, ATM, than the competition. As the above posted suggested, I don't even want to go out in the snow, salt, with my 10 year old Hyundia, much less my $60K M3 or S4. The M3 does better on dry pavement, no doubt about it, but people who drive M3s also have backup cars in their garage. The next generation M3 should make things more interesting for BMW. It's interesting to note what Audi had to do with the S4 in terms of the engine to get equitable performance to a 3.2L M3 engine.
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Replying to: kdshapiro (Oct 15, 2005 12:09 pm) Truth is, both cars are great, but for 2005, Audi S4 has taken the M3 down and I can't find a industry publication that says otherwise. Here's yet another article from R&T... http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=913&page_number=1
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Replying to: rjlaero (Oct 14, 2005 11:21 am) "The S4 is an excellent overall package, but it isn't as sporty or exciting to drive as the BMW M3 or Cadillac CTS-V. Its V8 is wonderfully smooth, delivered reasonable fuel economy, and makes the S4 very quick. The car has sound, capable handling enhanced by all-wheel drive. Like most cars in this class, the ride is stiff, but the S4 is not as punishing as some sports cars. The interior is beautifully crafted, and the trunk is the largest of the group. Like the regular A4 sedan, the rear seat is cramped, with little leg room. Reliability of the A4 line has been below average." THE DRIVING EXPERIENCE The S4 rides a bit stiffly, transmitting low-speed impacts to the cabin. The car feels a little unsettled on the highway, and overall it doesn't feel as controlled as the BMW or Cadillac. The cabin is well-isolated from noise, with just a mild engine hum audible. The S4 delivers very good handling, but not significantly better than the $30,000 A4 3.0 version. The steering is quick and responsive, and the car doesn't exhibit much body lean in corners. When pressed to its handling limits, the S4 tends to plow in corners, even with electronic stability control. It was secure and predictable and was easy to thread through our avoidance-maneuver course.
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Replying to: m3_r1 (Oct 17, 2005 6:09 am) EXHIBIT 2 From Consumers report: Sports CARS: The $50,000, High-performance Audi S4 and BMW M3 top our sports-car ratings, while blending fun and practicality. Audi S4 BMW M3 Cadillac CTS-V Pontiac GTO The Audi S4 and BMW M3 sped to the top of our sports-car ratings this month. Although the two are different in character and driving behavior, their overall test scores, based on more than 45 individual evaluations, were a virtual tie. Both finished ahead of our previously top-rated sports car, the Subaru Impreza WRX STi, which is about $20,000 less expensive. Although it finished third in this competitive group, the new Cadillac CTS-V also achieved an excellent overall score. The new Pontiac GTO, about $20,000 less expensive than the Audi, BMW, or Cadillac, scored notably lower overall in our tests. All four cars have a strong engine and manual transmission, and can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in less than 6 seconds. The Audi and Cadillac are four-door sedans, while the BMW and Pontiac are two-door coupes. The Audi is all-wheel drive, while the others use rear-wheel drive. The M3 is the only one that meets all of our criteria for being recommended. (See CR Quick Recommendations for more details.) Three of the tested vehicles are limited-edition, high-performance versions of other cars in their respective model lines. The Audi S4, redesigned for 2004, is based on the compact A4. In contrast to previous S4 versions that used a turbocharged V6 engine, this S4 is powered by a 340-hp, 4.2-liter V8 that's similar to that in Audi's largest sedan, the A8. The S4 is quick, has a beautifully crafted interior, and delivered the best fuel economy of the group. It has a very tight rear seat, though, and on our track it lacked the at-the-limit handling finesse of the BMW and Cadillac. 
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Replying to: showstopper1 (Oct 04, 2005 6:07 pm)
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