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BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester XT vs Infiniti FX 35 vs Toyota RAV4

1193 messages,  Last post on Apr 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM

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What is this discussion about? BMW X3, Subaru Forester, Infiniti FX35, Toyota RAV4, SUV

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#1127 of 1193 X3 Ultimate Driving Experience by ateixeira Aug 06, 2004 (5:41 pm)
You beat me to the punch!   But yeah, had a great time today, and I'll share my comments and compare it to the F-XT in each of the following categories, more or less like Ed did a while back.   Outside: I arrived early so I had more than an hour to walk around and in the X3.   They had spec sheets with prices and I have to admit I cringed a little when I saw that metallic paint and cruise control are $475 options, each. That would be OK if the paint didn't have swirl marks all over it.   Nice beefy brakes, vented discs even in the rear. Unpainted black cladding on the lower portions, plus both bumpers, should be low maintenance. Interestingly Subaru does this only on its cheapest model, the X.   The D-pillar really eats up some visibility, Bob pointed out that the window is smaller than it looks, even. Forester has much, much better visiblity in all directions. A-pillar is thinner and the windows are bigger and more square.   Inside: nice headliner, same as Forester actually. Plastics are a mixed bag, many sound hollow and feel hard. The lid on the storage bin at the top of the dash felt particularly cheap, and the aluminum trim looked real but already showed some wear.   The rubber liners for the bin and cup holders should be removable, but aren't. Odd placing of the cup holders, too, and the passenger one is flimsy. The rear seats get none at all. Stubborn Germans, this is supposed to be a family car.   Models we drove had the wood trim, but it looks so fake I wouldn't believe you if you told me it's real. Looks like runny paint, brown and tan mixed.   Visibility was only so-so, big blind spot on the driver's side for me. The cargo area is not very long, but it is tall. Be ready to stack things, bring boxy items. To the right there's a little cooler that looks like it could hold a can or two, but the Forester has one in the spare tire that can hold a full 12 pack.   Seats are nice, but honestly I would like a little more side bolstering, which the Forester offers. Rear seats BMW wins, hands down. Much more room. But the front seats in the Forester actually offer more knee space.   Acceleration with the 3.0l was comparatively leisurely off the line, this is not a quick SUV by any stretch of the imagination. Drive an F-XT with a manual and this seems downright slow. Even the XT with the automatic is substantially quicker, though power delivery is a little less linear with the Subie's automatic.   Running acceleration, however, was more than adequate. You feel the mass more off the line, but once it gets going you never feel lacking. I'm not sure I could recommend the 2.5l, which we didn't get to drive. I can't imagine that would be much fun, though.   Braking seemed great, no fade was noticed even after repeated hot laps. We got 3 laps at a time, and 4 of us did that, so 12 laps with only quick driver changes and it took the punishment nicely. Aces for the brakes. I can't compare to the Forester XT because I haven't had the chance to test those in the same condition. The F-XT is a lot lighter so who knows.   Handling with the X3 was good, but you do get a lot of body roll. Dive and squat control is definitely superior to the Subaru, but the X3 feels a lot heavier and not nearly as tossable. They say you can teach and Elephant how to dance, but you're still dancing with an Elephant. The X3 needs to go on Atkins. Call in Colin Chapman, I think subtracting 500 lbs would make this a hoot.   I had high expectations for the steering, but left a little disappointed with the slow ratio and delayed turn-in. I did not like the 4 spoke wheel, but a 3 spoke wheel comes with the Sport Package.   Speaking of which, that might have lessened the body roll a bit, but I can imagine the ride would end up quite stiff. We went over a split in the pavement and you heard each tire pounding over it. The Sport package upgrades the 17" rims to 18"s, plus stiffer springs, and I doubt it would be happy on my commutes to Washington, DC. So the ride, even with the non-sport models, was a little stiff for family duties.   Kudos to BMW for hosting such an excellent event. We got classroom instruction, sort of a refresher course, then a demo with a pro driver and 3 laps with that same driver coaching us.   After some more instruction, we got another 3 laps. When we wrapped up, they gave us a quick review on ABS use, and then handed out a couple of awards for Most Improved and Best Performance, a neat little traffic cone.   I was more than a little surprised when they handed the Best Performance award to me, along with a Sirius logo'd hat. Hey, I'll take it!   My review sounds critical but I actually really liked the X3. Perhaps I put it to a higher standard because I was aware of the much higher price. The BMW name, service, resale, are all appealing, but have no doubt, the Forester XT easily wins the bang-for-the-buck contest.   -juice Replies to this message: njswamplands (Aug 07, 2004 6:57 am)
#1128 of 1193 Re: X3 Ultimate Driving Experience [ateixeira] by njswamplands Aug 07, 2004 (6:57 am)
Replying to: ateixeira (Aug 06, 2004 5:41 pm) nice review guys. hard for me to comm that much info in my short posts.
#1129 of 1193 That is indeed a nice review............. by ezshift5 Aug 08, 2004 (9:02 am)
....but IIRC, the dollar differenctial flitting in and out of the equation is a (for YT) real factor....sure it's a nice car, but.......ez
#1130 of 1193 by ateixeira Aug 09, 2004 (6:09 am)
They only had the 3.0l models for us to drive, even then most had several options so we're talking about $40k or so list prices on them.   Wonder what the 2.5l would feel like. It might not be too bad with a manual tranny.   -juice
#1131 of 1193 Yeah... by rsholland Aug 09, 2004 (6:39 am)
I think the X3 would be a lot more fun with the 6-speed manual.   Bob
#1132 of 1193 My .02 by boomerbubba Aug 13, 2004 (10:27 am)
I have had a new 2004 XT for a week. Just passed break-in.   This is beyond a doubt the most fun, best-engineered vehicle I have ever owned. And that includes the BMW 2002 I drove for 19 years.
#1133 of 1193 by ateixeira Aug 13, 2004 (10:31 am)
Well, to be fair, your XT has had the benefit of decades of engineering advances.   Let's not take anything away from a car that basically created the entire sports sedan segment.   In a lot of ways I have more respect for that 2002 than I do for the new Bimmers. It was light, simple, back-to-basics, and nothing was on it that didn't make it go faster.   -juice Replies to this message: boomerbubba (Aug 13, 2004 11:57 am) kumari (Jan 09, 2006 12:52 pm) kdshapiro (Jan 09, 2006 2:06 pm) and 11 more...
#1134 of 1193 by ateixeira Aug 13, 2004 (10:32 am)
BTW, congrats, and please join us in the Subaru Crew threads under Owners Clubs right here on Edmunds.com.   -juice (founder and Crew Chief of the Subaru Crew)
#1135 of 1193 All hail the Chief!... ;-D by ozman62 Aug 13, 2004 (10:33 am)
#1136 of 1193 by ateixeira Aug 13, 2004 (10:34 am)
<crickets chirping>   Nice to know I have one whole fan.   -juice

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