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BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester XT vs Infiniti FX 35 vs Toyota RAV4

1193 messages,  Last post on Apr 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM

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What is this discussion about? BMW X3, Subaru Forester, Infiniti FX35, Toyota RAV4, SUV

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#1094 of 1193 by ateixeira Jun 02, 2004 (6:37 am)
Yep, and it's a lot less expensive even with a much bigger screen.   Maybe prices will come down a bit by the time I buy my next new vehicle.   -juice
#1095 of 1193 laptop by clpurnell Jun 02, 2004 (7:42 am)
is also a projectile in a crash. not sure if I want a 6-10# object flying around my car in a crash. I thought you subie safety nuts would have thought of that.
#1096 of 1193 by ateixeira Jun 03, 2004 (9:32 am)
Oh, no worries, I harness it down. It's not going anywhere.   -juice
#1097 of 1193 Lucky Americans by melbourne Jun 22, 2004 (5:25 am)
You guys are very lucky with cars: your prices are lower in lots of cars, and your salaries tend to be higher as well.   Over in Australia, many of us spend some time considering what to buy.   My wife drives a 3 series, and she is doing a higher mileage than anticipated; so she needs to have a longer life vehicle. We go skiing in Winter, about 6 hours return trip, or 10 hours to the lodge of which we are members. We take my LandCruiser for that, but I am considering another SUV style.   We were very excited about the X3, but then found out that BMW won't sell the 3 litre turbo diesel here, which performs better than the 3 litre six, and costs the same. its especially good on an auto.   My wife drives city traffic, in some hilly areas, and appreciates some get up and go, and an auto because she is in stop start traffic for much of here commuting.   This Saturday we have an invitation for the opening of the X3 into Australia, but I doubt we'll be able to drive it.   The sad thing about the X3 here is the prices. Firstly if one upgrades the 2.5 litre to a leather interior and an auto, there's only $US500 differrence between the 2.5 and the 3 litre. So the 2.5 litre is out, its bad value. But worse is the price: the X3 three litre is 85% more than a leather and sun roofed and side air bagged auto Subaru Forester. The Forester here does not have heated seats on any models, but seems to have most of the other options.   Our Subaru GTs all are two litres. I think the 2.5 engines will replace the 2.0 turbo engines, mainly because the Forester Turbo is the 2.5 litre. So I am cautious about the 2.0 Turbo GT cars. We also don't get the Jap spec. powered engines, because of our poorer fuel, and some complexities with Australian polution requirements which are not as strick anyway as the US ones. Also we don't have the very high Octane fules which are available in Japan. So our STI and XRXs lack the power of Japan and even the 2.5 litre US.   But the Outback here can be got in a wagen and auto form with the 3 litre six. This costs about $US3,000 more than an equipped Forester, but without the VDC, Sun roof and full leather and curtain air bags. Another $US3000 and one gets those options.   So an Outback VDC wagen fully equipped is still way way cheaper than even a base with leather auto X3 3 litre.   Incidentally a very well equipped "Kluger" Toyota which you have over there under another name, cost about the same as an Outback, but its bigger, has seven seats, and sits higher, about the same height as a Forester. Its got more equipment than a Forester XT, but isn't nearly as quick, but not much slower than an X3.   I've read most of the posts, and I feel the X3 probably out; with a diesel (available in New Zealand) I think I'd have a case for it.   We also have a Ford here, the Territory, which is an excellant vehicle, much like a larger and more efficient X5, developed in Australia, of our Falcon rear drive platform. Its about Forester price, but so far the 4 litre twin cam four valve straight six 182kw is the only engine available (they have not yet mentioned putting in the turbo six, which is faster than the 4 valve 5+ litre American Ford V8).   I had not considered the Forester, but I am now. its got the pace my wife would like, and would cost less than her 325, with good visibility for traffic, and the dogs would go in the back.   But whatever she gets, she'll miss the glory of BMW's steering system, brakes and carved from steel feel. Oh well.   I wonder what people think also of the Toyota (I forget your name for it, its the bigger and cheaper version of the Lexus 330 which we also have), which costs here less than the X3, and seems to me to be better value.   So you in the States who buy X3s, don't feel bad, they cost more in Australia, which is a big 4WD market.   Incidentally, the Forester XT is the lowest depreciating of all new vehicles according to our depreciation "Glasses" guide, maybe because its better value to buy here.   I'd appreciate any comments, and if anybody wants me to, I may post my findings.   Cheers all and appreciate your comments about where the Toyota fits in America. Replies to this message: tidester (Jun 22, 2004 5:50 am)
#1098 of 1193 Re: Lucky Americans [melbourne #1097] by tidester HOST Jun 22, 2004 (5:50 am)
Replying to: melbourne (Jun 22, 2004 5:25 am) the 4 litre twin cam four valve straight six 182kw is the only engine available   That would be about 244 hp if I worked it out correctly.   tidester, host
#1099 of 1193 by ateixeira Jun 22, 2004 (6:39 am)
No diesel X3 in the USA, either.   Your Kluger is our Toyota Highlander.   The 2.0l Forester comes with a low range there, right? Cool. So there are trade-offs. Plus that explains why the price difference is bigger.   Try the Outback VDC or even the XT model. You guys get a full size spare, the US doesn't, so maybe we're not the lucky ones!   -juice
#1100 of 1193 Oz... by rsholland Jun 22, 2004 (6:46 am)
also gets a smaller 215 size tire than we do in our Outbacks, which may account for the full-size spare. Our last generation Outback wouldn't fit a 225 size tire in the spare tire well. That still may be the case?   Bob
#1101 of 1193 by p0926 Jun 22, 2004 (10:51 am)
My sister was in town visiting over the weekend and she let me take her Z4 for a spin. That car sure does corner like it's on rails! If the X3 got some of those handling genes then it should be fun to drive. I really do need to go test drive one...   -Frank
#1103 of 1193 Wheels, by melbourne Jun 23, 2004 (6:28 pm)
Yes the manual gets a low range. The auto, with a torque converter, does not need a low range to get up the hills, although adding additional cooling for the gearbox for low speed up hill crawling is done by Toyota. Subaru I don't think have extra cooling on their auto.   The problem with an auto then is getting down them the hill. What happens with autos, even low range petrol ones like our LandCruiser, is that the brakes do all the work. A low range in a diesel will have the vehicle crawl down, but not many petrols will crawl down unless the gearbox is super low and the engine has strong engine braking characteristics.   Typically in Aus going down a steep track, you follow the wheel tracks, and middle clearance is what stops you (the middle of the vehicle's ground clearance is critical because the tracks are much deeper in the wheel rut areas than the higher often grassy middle of the track).   Incidentally while the Outback has good ground clearance, its not very effective over rocks because its wheelbase is long. Its overhangs are also poor as well, so the Outback is not regarded here as being as Outbackable as a Forester.   Going down hill, rocks in the tracks require some skill. You go down heavily on the brakes all the time. If one leaves the tracks sideways a bit because of climbing a rock, you won't be able to get back onto the wheel track ruts, because the rear wheels will still be in the wheel ruts. This is serious, because one of the front wheels is now off the ruts, which means its likely the vehicle is somewhat sideways. When on is sideways on a steep track, that's when you roll - lengthwise its tough for them to tip over the front! Although in Aus, some short wheelbase vehicles have flipped over backwards going up steep tracks. Toyata have a light LandCruiser here, with a chassis, but they don't sell the short wheelbase version. No doubt they fear in Aus it might flip over lengthwise!   But sideways its much more easy to roll over, especially with high roll centre vehicles (which the Subaru is very much not). Also a shorter wheelbase helps get over any bumps.   For rough stuff, we would take the LandCruiser anyway. Its much more capable off road, and a chassis stops the body getting wrecked, as with a mono chassis like a Subaru etc. every bump into the floor pan affects the whole body in my opinion.   As to the wheels, Subarus here get a fifth wheel that is exactly the same as the road wheels - an alloy one.   But here, one can only get the side air bag if one gets leather and a sun roof. the Subaru passes our safety tests without a side air bag, so for some reason Subaru onlu put it into the luxury ones.   For some reason, such a big hole in the roof concerns me - it must weaken the structure IMO; and if not, there must be quite a weight penalty, in a place that is bad news for handling, as its at the top of a high place.   The Highlander - yes that's the name, Thanks. I like it too. My wife thinks the front is ugly, but otherwise its external styling is great. No four cyclinder here! And no one here knows about an electric hybrid either. The Toyota Prius hybrid doesn't yet sell well here, unlike the States, but who knows if a hybrid came to Aus. I'd imagine it would be great as it would save fuel and provide a different way of achieving all wheel drive. The media here have reported that Toyota subsidises the Prius $US7000 per vehicle here.   We are driving the X3 this weekend it turns out. I think its not worth it here, its probably cheaper here over 4 years to buy a diesel X5, which cost not much more than a leathered X5 3 litre. We'll test the turbo Forester as well, and maybe the Ford and Toyota, if we have time. Just quick spins for a look and feel.   No answers about the Toyota, I guess because its off topic. It seems to be in a different category. Cheers all. Replies to this message: petewat3 (Jun 24, 2004 4:12 am) melbourne (Jun 24, 2004 5:38 pm)

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