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BMW X3 vs Subaru Forester XT vs Infiniti FX 35 vs Toyota RAV4

1193 messages,  Last post on Apr 18, 2008 at 2:49 PM

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What is this discussion about? BMW X3, Subaru Forester, Infiniti FX35, Toyota RAV4, SUV

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#11 of 1193 zman by ballistic Jan 23, 2004 (6:49 am)
Not sure why I didn't see this until today; you posted it on the 18th. Anyway,   is a 6-speed what you think Subaru needs to put into the XT?   There are 2 possible solutions, 1 easy, 1 expensive and unlikely.   The easy, inexpensive one would be to put the WRX 3.9 final drives into the XT, leaving everything else the same. The 5-speed's 1st gear is low enough to handle this, and each of the other gears would definitely benefit from the taller ratio.   The expensive, unlikely solution would be to put the STi 6-speed into the XT - but it would do no good unless the entire ratio set was revised. The STi 6-speed has fairly close ratios, good for track work. The XT needs a low 1st (for off-road) and a tall 6th (for decent MPG and lower-RPM highway cruising). In other words, the XT needs wider, more-spread ratios than what the STi gets. I don't think it's likely that Subaru will invest in a different 6-speed gearset just for the XT.
#12 of 1193 wide-ratio 6-speed by rsholland Jan 23, 2004 (6:56 am)
If the Legacy GT gets a 6-speed down the road (which is rumored), it could well make it's way into the FXT too. The more models Subaru can offer it in, the lower the unit cost per item.   I'm not sure it will be a "true" wide-ratio unit, but perhaps the gear ratios might be a tad wider than what's found on the STi.   Bob
#13 of 1193 Besides who cross shops bmw's and subarus by lbhaley Jan 23, 2004 (6:59 am)
I would have crossed shopped the two if the X-3 had been available when I bought the XT. Having read the X-3 tests I know I would still have bought the XT. I just can't resist that power! I had excellent luck with my 98 Forester S, so I was leaning towards buying another Subaru anyway. All that money I saved is certainly nice too. I have owned five different BMWs at various times. I love the way they drive but they have nothing on Subaru when it comes to reliability, functionality, and now with the XT, performance.   -les
#14 of 1193 Bob, by ballistic Jan 23, 2004 (7:43 am)
The current STi 6-speed ratios might be fine for the Legacy GT, aimed more at sporty on-road driving than at the Forester's mix of on- and off-road utility. It's the latter usage that would really need a low 1st and high 6th.
#15 of 1193 BMW X3 vs Forester XT by ballistic Jan 23, 2004 (7:45 am)
The BMW's lifetime cost for service and repair work is likely to be several times greater than for the XT.
#16 of 1193 JB by rsholland Jan 23, 2004 (7:50 am)
With all the power the XT has, I don't think a deep low first gear is necessary. I see your point though. Maybe this could be addressed with the 6-speed XT having a slightly lower final drive (4.11?) than a Legacy GT (3.90?). I know this goes counter to your wish for a 3.90 final drive, but with a 6-speed, and revised internal gear ratios, a 3.90 may not be necessary for the Forester, given its mission in life. I would think you would still get more relaxed cruising, better gas mileage, and a better selection of gear ratios.   Bob
#17 of 1193 Bob, by ballistic Jan 23, 2004 (7:56 am)
I didn't mean to suggest that a 6-speed XT would need a lower 1st than is already on the 5-speed (although some might want that for boat towing or rock hopping). What I meant is that a 6-speed in an XT would probably want the overall ratio in 1st to be about where the current one already is, whereas 6th would want to be substantially taller than 5th is now. Maybe as much as 30% taller. That would require a wider-spaced gearset than what's in the STi, but the latter's current closer-ratio set might be OK in the Legacy GT as is.
#18 of 1193 Gottcha by rsholland Jan 23, 2004 (8:03 am)
The rumor I've heard is that there is another 6-speed under development for the Legacy. Reportedly this is not a variation of the STi unit, but a new tranny altogether. Reportedly it is lighter and less costly than the STi unit.   Seems rather silly to me. I would think it would be more cost-effective to offer a STi 6-speed variant for any other Subie applications.   Who knows, maybe this rumor is false. It wouldn't surprise me.   Bob
#19 of 1193 by ballistic Jan 23, 2004 (8:28 am)
I don't think Subaru makes the practically unbreakable STi 6-speed box. IIRC, it is a very expensive outsourced item, perhaps putting it beyond reach of typical Legacy buyers. If so, the same would be true of the XT. A less-expensive in-house box might be better.
#20 of 1193 jjman by saugatak Jan 23, 2004 (10:41 am)
"Besides who cross shops bmw's and subarus?"   Maybe nobody cross shops BMW and Subaru in the galaxy you live in, but they do in the galaxy I live in.   See what I mean about Subaru people being knowledgeable and passionate about their brand? IMO, it's always a good idea to get them in on a discussion.

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