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Vans & Minivans Chrysler Town & Country/Dodge Grand Caravan Chrysler Town & Country and Dodge Grand Caravan 2005+
1417 messages, Last post on May 29, 2009 at 4:15 PM
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Replying to: frogger123 (Jan 31, 2006 8:50 pm) "Does this Forum think that Castrol is one of the best Dino oils?" Who knows? Once upon a time, Castrol, as a European oil, was one of the few oils whose cans indicated it passed obscure European and Japanese test requirements that were more severe (due to overhead cam designs and higher rpm) than those for American cars (due to cam-in-block ohv designs and lower rpm). At that time I ran Castrol exclusively. Since then, small, high revving, overhead cam engine designs have become common from American manufacturers, and oils from major refiners have become much better. In particular, some large refineries, like Chevron/Texaco and Conoco Philips (although C-P still had conventional motor oils), have implemented some pretty advanced refining techniques (hydrocracking - see here: http://baseoil.conocophillips.com/products/grp2_base_oils/index.htm ). Chevron invented and licenses hydrocracking and "isodewaxing" and calls its resulting base stock (the basic oil to which additives are blended) Isosyn and has this to say about it: "ISOSYN™ base stocks, ... rival synthetics in critical engine tests." Chevron explains Group I, II, II+, III, and III+ here: http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/BaseOils/gf4_faq.shtml What is very interesting to note, is that Syntec, Castrol's line of "fully synthetic" motor oil, is a Group III oil sold at $5.00 or so a bottle, but in actuality it only exceeds the performance of Type II+ oil (Chevron Supreme) by a tiny margin (the intrinsic viscocity index of III oils is slightly better than II+ oils). Yet Chevron Supreme is only 1.50 a bottle, or even less at Costco. General consensus on other user groups is that Castrol GTX no longer rules the roost, but has incredible marketplace momentum since it started out as one of the best oils. Castrol is now owned by BP, British Petroleum, which produces some of the most advanced Group V base stocks in the world; thus the rave reviews on German Castrol. One other factor to consider is the obscure Chrysler MS6395L specification for the oils to be used in its cars. This is in addition to the grade requirement and any SAE or ILSAC starburst requirement in your manual (in my manual, I could find the MS6395L requirment, but the SAE and ILSAC requirements were missing! maybe the Chrysler requirement includes them). The following oils that I know of satisfy the Chrysler specification: Mobil 1 5-30 (not the Extended Performance version); Chevron Supreme 5-30; Havoline 5-30; Castrol GTX 5-30; Castrol GTX 5-30 Start Up. FWIW, in the manual for my 2006 Caravan, Chrysler has shifted radically away from encouraging longer oil change intervals. I owned a 1999 Dodge Neon, 2002 Neon, 2004 PT Cruiser, and finally this minivan. Oil change intervals used to be 7,500 miles, except severe service, which was NARROWLY defined. Now, the maximum is 6,000 miles, and severe service (3,000 mile changes) is BROADLY defined, to the point where Chrysler adds a note that "most drivers fall into one of the severe categories." Thus the reason I use Mobil 1 - it has the most stable (Group IV) base stock, and the best additive package, and Exxon Mobil's FAQ guarantees its perfomance up to the car maker's maximum oil change interval, unless the car is driven according to Exxon Mobil's definition of severe service - which really is severe service, not the whimpy DC version. I don't want to live in the dealer's waiting room, since I drive a lot, but do want to protect my vehicles, and Mobil 1 seems like the best bet for full protection with the convenience of 6,000 mile oil change intervals. |
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This is my last post on oil, since this isn't an oil forum. However, the original post by frogger123 was based on consuming a quart of oil every 3,000 miles in his 6 cylinder Caravan, and what impact (if any) that might have on his catalytic converter. Here is what Chevron says: "What are the drivers behind GF-4? "The simple answers are tougher Emissions and Fuel Economy standards mandated by the U. S. Government. Automotive OEM's need better fuel economy to meet Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFÉ) limits. They also need their catalytic converters to provide reduced emissions for 120,000 miles. Higher quality base oils are an important part of the solution to GF-4." and "Why do emission regulations impact lubricants? "There is no engine test that measures emission system stability, but the OEM's have data showing that sulfur and phosphorus are poisons for catalytic converters and must be limited. Thus, in GF-4 oils sulfur is limited to 0.5%, maximum, in 0W- and 5W- engine oils and 0.7%, maximum in 10W- engine oils. Phosphorus is limited to 0.08%. This restricts the amount of zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, the workhorse anti-oxidant and anti-wear agent, which can be used in engine oils, which in turn, may restrict the amount of Group I oil in GF-4 blends." Obviously, using a quart of oil in 3,000 miles is going to expose the catalytic converter, over a long period of time, to more contaminants than with an engine that uses less oil. Also obvious is that the new SM grade oils will contain fewer contaminants than a non-SM oil (there are a few non SM, non GF4 oils available for passenger car use - Mobil 1 Extended Performance, because it NEEDS those extra antiwear additives to go the extra distance, and Shell Rotell T Synthetic, because as a dual purpose oil, diesel and passenger car, it needs extra antiwear additives to protect in the punishing diesel environment). Does it matter when replacement aftermarket converters are now only a couple of hundred dollars? Is 120,000 of service (formerly 70,000 miles) from a converter reasonable to expect? Have converters been failing in large numbers so far? I guess when it comes down to it, as an individual, I don't want to chase the last fractional mile per gallon at the expense of engine wear and tear, nor do I need an absurdly long catalytic converter life at the expense of engine wear and tear. That is probably one of the reasons, in addition to being able to tout an extended drain interval oil, that Mobil 1 has taken the amazing step of selling an oil (Extended Performance) that doesn't satisfy either the SM or GF4 requirements...let's see if they can survive in a market place that demands conformity. Meanwhile, on Aisle 3, consumers everywear are buying 10-40 oil (the most popular in parts shops etc.) and dealers are installing 10-30 instead of 5-30....which is why I carry in my own oil, no matter what vehicle I own. More and more owners are doing the same. |
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Replying to: micweb (Feb 01, 2006 12:09 pm) |
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Replying to: frogger123 (Feb 01, 2006 3:33 pm) As to seating the rings, my understanding is that this is done, or not done, in the first 600 miles of driving - there are, as I recall, some crosshatching on the factory cylinder walls to help them scuff in. Even if your 24,000 miles is a typo (did you mean 2,400?) the rings are probably no longer an issue; but "driving hard once in a while" and varying speeds during the first critical 600-1,000 miles are definitely a good idea. I personally try to avoid full throttle until I hit 3,000 miles, but will use up to 3/4 throttle to hit high rpm, once the car is FULLY warmed up. I have also noticed engines continuing to break in over the first 10,000 miles, so something is definitely going on even after the first 600-1,000 miles, and long term car tests in the magazines often show performance increasing (not decreasing) as their test vehicles approach 15,000- 30,000 miles. I guess the total break-in process is a lot longer than we think, but at least our ability - as drivers - to harm the vehicles is a lot less after the first 600-1,000 miles.
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Replying to: micweb (Feb 01, 2006 5:46 pm) Curious as to anyones thoughts on reliability with Caravans(or any van)that have been rentals and are usually sold to the public at around 20,000 miles. Much is said about proper "break in", yet usually people(myself  ) who rent autos are pretty hard on them from the get go(i.e frequent and heavy throttle, usually long trips at a constant high speed)...or as some say "they get ragged out" Keeping this in mind, it seems to be a bit risky in buying a rental.
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Replying to: frogger123 (Feb 01, 2006 3:33 pm) Regarding your rings, my bet is that the compression rings are fully seated and there is nothing more that you can do with them shy of pulling the motor and rebuilding it (not that I'm suggesting that, it sounds like they're doing just fine). When I was mentioning your rings earlier it was in reference to your oil rings, and they don't "seat" in the conventional sense. They are however very suceptible to getting cruded up, and that means that they aren't scavenging the oil off the cylinder wall as effectively as they should. Given the relatively frequent oil changes that your van has had I'd be a little surprised if you had an oil ring problem, in spite of the Quaker State oil that has been used. Then again, maybe that stuff really is that bad. To bring this discussion full circle, I simply don't think you have anything to worry about with regards to your oil consumption. My bet is that if you keep your van properly maintained, you'll see well beyond the north side of 100,000 miles as still won't see your oil consumption drop to the point of concern (i.e. 1 quart per 1,000 miles). Best Regards, Shipo
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Replying to: shipo (Feb 01, 2006 7:37 pm) |
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I found out that extra bins for the overhead rail system are indeed $140 (yes 140) PER BIN...Vans equiped with the system have room for 2 or 3 more (as noted in sales literature)..SO $280, or $420 EEEEEEEEK Where can I find a wreck? Tony |
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Replying to: frogger123 (Jan 31, 2006 8:50 pm)
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Replying to: genetuck (Feb 03, 2006 1:56 am)
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