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Jaguar S-Type, Jaguar, Coupe, Convertible, Sedan
#7 of 200 More Logical Inconsistencies
Dec 05, 2003 (9:23 pm)
Redrockbunny, there are some more problems:
1) The board never assumed it was towed. You explictly said "The dealer came up and...towed the car to Scottsdale, AZ". That is as clear as it could be. What makes this significant is your twisting the authorship of this around and blaming it on the board. Also, in my experience Jaguar dealers just don't use a tow truck to move a new vehicle. In fact, I can't think of any new car dealer who uses a tow truck (just imagine the front end damage and what it is doing to the transmission after Bubba gets it all hooked up). Small point but it diminishes your story.
2) The statement that "the more expensive the car and the more wealthy (sic) the car owner. The less you see posts on it." just isn't true. By your logic the low cost Yugo and relatively low cost Saturn boards would be busy. They are not. Rather, look at all the posts under BMW, Audi, even Chevrolet Tahoe/Yukon and Yukon Denali. The real relationship is the more the owners feel involved with their cars the more they post, not cost of the car or socioeconomic status of the owner. In doubt? The Land Rover Disco Board is perhaps the liveliest on the entire Edmunds site. The MSRP of a new Disco is only 34K.
3) "All he wanted to do is have something better and different" is contradictory for a fellow who supposedly turned in a 2002 Jag XJ for a new one. A 2002 Jag is about as close to a 2004 Jag as you are ever going to get. It is not something "different". Again, not a major point but logic redrockbunny just isn't on your side.
4) Business owners of substance as this gentlemen is portrayed to be let their attorney handle the rough stuff. Why isn't the "high powered" attorney involved right now? Speaking of "high powered attorneys", that is a phrase right out of People Magazine. Real people don't talk that way.
5) The Jag rep came "from back East". Even I as a New Englander living on a small island would know that Jaguar would support dealers in NM and AZ out of a CA office, not from "back East".
OK, maybe you aren't a troll but this saga sure reads funny and you have a habit of not letting facts get in the way of your narrative.
#8 of 200 1996 Jaguar XJ, Should I?
Dec 06, 2003 (12:38 pm)
To all owners past and present, I am seriously thinking about a 1996 sedan, with 80,000 miles. I am used to driving 1960's Fords and Lincolns. Will a Jaguar cause me to lose my mind and my retirement savings? I realize that maintenance will be high but are there idiosyncrasies in this car that are way out of the expected? As an example of what I mean; I was interested in an Audi until I read that one of the early 90's models (A4, I think) requires a complete new front-end, every 30,000 miles, at a cost of $4,000 because of the way it was designed-individual parts can't be replaced, only the whole unit. Any advice or comments on the Jag will be appreciated.
#9 of 200 here we go again, blockislandguy
Dec 06, 2003 (12:43 pm)
It is not important to me who believes me or not. I am only interested in people of whom would like to post input about their Jaguars, or experiences they have heard. This board seems to have slipped from, "let's all comment on this problem" to "let's all try to discredit the poster" This is sad to me.
I will not apologize for saying "towed" instead of "transported". So What??? It is the same thing to me, and a real fine line, and very petty to keep harping on it. The car is at the dealer, they came and got it, end of issue!
The attorney is involved now, that is neither here now there, as I am only asking for input as to the mechanical attributes of the car not legal advice. This attorney is high-powered as are many, and maybe you don't talk that way but people I know do. Welcome to the real world.
The process is still too fresh for the Lemon Law to be brought on line.
Also the 2004 IS totally new, about 95 percent so. It is also a radical aluminum design. A person with a 2002 will definitely have a different and better car with the 2004. That being that the individual car doesn't have a problem of course, like this one does.
Anyone that doesn't have anything to say contructively about the problems put forth with the car, need not waste their time posting and reposting. I would really appreciate some reasonable responses.
#10 of 200 Redrock......
Dec 11, 2003 (4:29 am)
How's your friend doing with resolving his problem??
#11 of 200 Leadfoot, 2004 Jag Vanden Plas
Dec 15, 2003 (10:52 am)
Thank you for asking......
The problem has not been resolved yet. However he went down to Scottsdale last week and had a lengthy discussion with the dealer. They were very accomodating. They told him they want to get him another car, but until they find the problem, their hands are tied. A couple managers are going to drive the hell out of it this weekend, taking it out of town etc, to try to get it to duplicate the problem. Hopefully they will find the glitch, however, it seems it is usually experienced in everyday use by the owner. So far the consensus is the car will not be reclaimed by my friend. I don't have any information on the lawyer side of it.
Meanwhile he has rented a new Lincoln until all this is resolved. He hates it, and says it is not nearly the car his Jaguar was. In spite of the problem with the Jag he really is missing the car.
As it was special ordered, and he had to wait for it excitedly.
I was hoping that someone may have experienced unusual problems with their new Jag and may have posted by now. This particular top of the line model, (2004 Vanden Plas), is still relatively rare, as the other models are more frequently sold. I still think the problem is something to do with the circuitry between the accelerator-gear shifter. The system somehow stores codes as to the anticipation of throttle needs in conjuntion with the transmission needs, and they are activated when the transmission indicator is selected and the accellerator depressed. I would have to do more research, but I think all these responses are all electronic and the direct mechanical links have been eliminated. This is where the type of problems has been experienced in other makes.
After more indepth discussion about the other issue, the shaking, having not been in the car at the time, I feel it may have had something to do with the same computer glitch. As he has told me he had no power, while it was shaking, and the fuel mileage would drop like a rock. This is similar to an older car when you would have a carburation problem, or vacumn problem. Yes, I have done a lot of restoration of engines and cars from the 60's.
My opinion: cars are becoming too computer operated. This takes a lot of control away from the driver. Car makers think computers never error, but in realty they are not infallible! I say keep the computers as non-critical applications in these new cars. And leave the operation of the car mechanical only.
Because I believe in fairness above all in posting. I will definitely post when I hear the results of this issue. I think I owe that to Jaquar and the board. This issue may end up be completely resolved amicably, who knows?
#12 of 200 Repair and Maintenance Concerns
Feb 15, 2004 (8:58 pm)
I am able to get a really good price on a 2001 XJ8 though a friend that works for a Jag dealership. I know he has my best interest at heart and is providing an XJ8 with 28K on the clock, in prestine condition, Select Edition, in the $26K range.
My big question is.......am I going to be visiting my local jag dealer on a frequent and regular basis and spending lots of dollars? I have read the horror stories on this forum and am quite concerned. I am used to the Japanese high end vehicle, driving problem free, and am wondering if this is going to be a huge change to the negitive upon switching to the XJ8. It seems to appear there's a multitude of minor to major disappointments with these cars that, quite frankly, I have never experienced in the 10 years of driving Acura and Infiniti. All advise will be appreciated. Thanks to all...Rich
Feb 22, 2004 (1:10 am)
It is highly possible that the vehicle could have been towed by a non-flatbed. Most Jaguar dealers do not have their own towing service, they contract out. Jag does insist on flatbeds. However, I had an experience with my S-Type being towed by a non-flatbed. The excuse was: "Our flatbed truck had a flat, so we had to use this one". When I informed Jaguar about what had happened, they said they would investigate, never heard back from Jag. Not to mention a 3 or more hour wait on a tow (at least 3 times). In my 4 year ownership of my S-Type, I have had many many problems, including a new engine and two new transmissions. Stubborn dealer, and careless mechanics. Even had a troubleshooter come down from Detroit with specialized equipment. However, I can say, and I agree with Redrockbunny comment on Jag's customer service. Jaguar is the King or Queen of double talk. Lot's of "I'm sorries" and little on solutions. I've had similar result with rentals. I was even given a pick-up truck a couple of times. It appears that in the Washington D.C./Va./Md area, Enterprise has the contract to supply rental vehicles. And you get what's on the lot at the time. To date my vehicle has spent 148 days in service. Thank God I have only 4 more payments.
#14 of 200 Follow-up Jaguar XJ series
Mar 19, 2004 (6:11 pm)
Just an update on my friend's Jaguar. The car sat at the dealer for over a month. They checked it out from stem to stern. Supposedly nothing was found that would cause the anomalies. Of course in the meantime my friend is in the middle of many other projects including trying to build a new home, and had to pay for a rented Lincoln and Cadillac while Jag was trying to de-bug his car. Quite expensive and inconvenient. Finally the dealer said my friend had to take the car back. He refused, and left it sitting on the lot for several weeks. Then higher-up Jaguar representives contacted him and asked him to give it one more try. Finally he took the car back, and has had it for about a month. I am afraid to ever ride in what we have termed the "death" car again. My friend is between a rock and a hard place: continue to drive it and wait for something else to surface, or trade it off and forfeit a major chunk of change. Hopefully after more consumers are able to document this problem, Jaquar will eventually be able to address it in some manner. I do not fault Jaguar, but I do think the vehicles have become so sophisticated in this day that finding anomalies is quite difficult. My friend told Jaguar if he has a bad accident with the car, they can expect a very large lawsuit. So far he has not had any further problems, I frankly haven't wanted to ask him, it is a very sore subject. End of story for the time being.
By the way I think the car originally was taken to Scottsdale on a flatbed truck, I at the time, when posting: "it was towed," didn't even think to ask how it was taken down there.
Also finally someone has posted a very similar problem with their Jaguar. You can click on this URL for further information:
Mar 19, 2004 (7:06 pm)
I still don't see how it's possible that he could not stop the car with this "sudden acceleration". This incident would require a wide open throttle occurring on its own and a complete brake failure at the same moment. It seems so unlikely, and isn't even explainable. It requires one to believe that not one, but two one-in-a-million things happened at the identical time.
This could be a disorientation issue. I know it certainly happens in small aircraft, where a perfectly operating plane is driven right into the ground (John Kennedy for instance).
But who knows? It's very weird and I'm still pretty skeptical that the car is as fault until someone can explain it to me in scientific terms.
#16 of 200 Sudden Acceleration Jag
Oct 01, 2004 (8:22 pm)
To Redrock Bunny, I've not experienced sudden acceleration, but I have experienced (also quite frightening) the opposite. While driving on the highway, the car just died. Engine cuts out. Complete loss of engine power. The weird thing is you press the accelerator and the car does not speed up, just slows down while coasting. But for some reason the tach keeps showing engine rpm's that you had prior to the stall. The first time this happened, it was a couple yrs ago and I didn't give it much thought. But on a recent trip to Florida from PA, it happened 6 or 7 times w/in 2 hrs. It would have happened more often except I realized that by keeping the throttle pressed all the time (i.e. avoiding coasting), the car wasn't as likely to stall. Except driving on the highway w/o being able to coast was very difficult, had to either brake or accelerate. When I had taken the car to the dealer, they cleaned the throttle body but it didn't help. Couple days ago, I got a letter from Jag that they're recalling my car for stalling while driving. Maybe they'll fix it now... My jag is a 98 XJ8 w/79K mi. I have owned 3 other jags in two yrs but will never get another one. The brand's customer service is AWFUL!!