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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Toyota Prius vs. Honda Civic Hybrid v. Honda Insight v. ? 
336 messages, Last post on Oct 26, 2007 at 11:07 AM
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Replying to: hchinsandiego (Dec 02, 2005 4:46 pm) |
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It is true that ESD can avoid a certain percentage of accidents, and that Honda has made the trade-off (for now) of making the top of the passive protection pile instead of following others. The main benefit of ESD is to be seen in rear-drive vehicles, especially when excessive speed is involved. Since people who are inclined to buy hybrids are also inclined to drive more conservatively, this lack of ESD is even less significant. |
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I actually looked at all three candidates, for brevity Prius=P, Honda Civic Hybrid=C, Insight=I I decided what my goals were: (1) good miles per gallon (2) relaible (3) maual transmission (4) fun-to-drive ( some performance, some handling) (5) cost effectiveness- not just mpg savings (6) features Now add Now 2006 Honda Civic SI 6-speed coupe w/NAV = S (1) P=++, C=++ I=+++ S=+ (2) P=+++ C=+++ I=+++ S=+++ (3) P=--- , C=2005 ++ C=2006 ---, I=++ S=+++ (4) P=-- , C=-- , I=- S=+++ (5) P=-- , C=+ , I=+ S=+ (6) P=+++ , C=++ , I=+ , S=++ H'mm it looks like the following ranking: First = 2006 Honda Civic SI Second = 2005 HCH 5-speed manual Third= 2006 Insight 5-speed FOURTH= 2006 HCH CVT FIFTH= 2006 Prius CVT These results are a small sampling and may not be scientifcially accurate. Also, you opions, testing and findings may vary. It is just that I have found the only way hybrids are better is in mpg and that all folk's as Porky Pig used to say. Double sixes, MidCow
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Jan 12, 2006 12:53 pm) I agree with you on most counts. Hybrids aren't as fun to drive as they should be, because too much of them is automated. If I could manually operate the engine shutoff, it would be much more efficient, since at present it frequently kills itself just before the light turns green, and I could manually shift it on my ride to work more efficiently than even the ECVT, which is pretty hard to beat anywhere but on the highway. I used to drive a Justy, which got me better than 50mpg just from my 'gentle touch' driving habits. It got crumpled between a pickup truck and a guard rail after Subaru stopped shipping them over here. You shouldn't have to buy an expensive hybrid in order to get a reasonably safe and efficient car, but I am not about to drive around with a highly explosive tank of natural gas, so here I am with an '06 HCH. |
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"For 99% of FWD drivers, they will never activate electonic skid control. And of that 1% that do actiavate it, having it will only prevent an accident in 5% of the cases." I guess since 99% of the time you won't need your seatbelt you shouldn't bother putting it on. Or since 99% people won't need their airbags, they should save the money and not buy them. Actually 99% is not a highly reliable number. You wouldn't want to get in an accident 1 out of 100 times you go to the store. The space shuttle is a little over 98% reilable ( 2 accidents out of 117). Additionally, I haven't seen anybody say that ESC isn't needed on front wheel drive cars. In fact, I've seen a discussion that indicates it is still needed on AWD cars. I guess they are just putting ESC in FWD cars for show like pinstripes. Granted ESC isn't going to save you from every accident, but if you keep a bible in the glove compartment, you should be ok for the other 95%. All that aside, I reviewed the safety features for the Civic and Toyota and I came up with a couple of nuggets I overlooked. To the advantage of the Civic, it has "Active Head Restraints" which is a nice feature that prevents whip lash (which 99% of the people wont need  ) And the Prius has a Tire monitor guage which alerts you to loss of air in the tires.
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Replying to: koolkinkajou (Jan 13, 2006 6:45 am) I said : "These results are a small sampling and may not be scientifcially accurate. Also, you opions, testing and findings may vary. It is just that I have found the only way hybrids are better is in mpg and that all folk's as Porky Pig used to say." koolkinkajou said: "Additionally, I haven't seen anybody say that ESC isn't needed on front wheel drive cars." Well, I for one say it is not needed, so there is a least one. Only needed if you do not drive correctly for the conditions. My choice is still the Civic Si. The Prius is one of the slowest Toyotas made! YOMV, MidCow |
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   Some people think that the Toyota Prius is the standard by which other Hybrids are to be measured, but not me!! Who made the first Hybrid car? Obviously it was Honda in 1999 with the Insight! Everyone else saw that Honda is the leader in Hybrids so then they created their cars to compete against Honda. It is easier to make your own hybrid when you already see someone elses design. Honda might not be all over the place advertising their Hybrids, but they sure do have a better reputation than Toyota. Believe me, Honda knows where to put what in their cars in favor of the drivers convenience. If you wanna compare the Prius to the Accord or civic hybrid, there is no way. Compare it to the Insight, genius, and dont just look at the features inside. Compare it to the same hatchback bodystyle and to the gas mileage. I dont believe that a 1.5 liter engine can acheive 60 miles per gallon. It gets around 36 in the real world. In someones high gas mileage prius world, it gets that kinda mileage which serves as propaganda. So there! Have it your way, but morew people have it my way and I take the stand with Honda and not Toyota.
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Why dont they stop makind Diesel vehicles already. we have hybrids so move over diesels that cause asthma!!! Long live hybrids!!!
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Replying to: prelude2 (Jan 30, 2006 9:03 am) Actually, when they get clean sulphur, more compnies will import diesels into the USA besides Mercedes and VW and they will give the hybrids a run for their money! YMMV, MidCow P.S.- It has become a proven fact that for the first 5 years of their life hybrids are less economilca than an equivalent gas/diesel only car.
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Replying to: midnightcowboy (Jan 30, 2006 11:56 am) Even on ULSD as available in Europe, the cleanest Diesel in the Toyota Verso D-4D cannot touch Tier II/Bin 5. Ford and DCC have their Urea injection into an SCR but Toyota may not have that in their patent portfolio unless it was one of the techs Ford gave to them for the FEH’s eCVT/HSD tech. All you need to do is look it up. Euro IV using ULSD is 250 and 350% higher in PM and NOx over Tier II/Bin5 and Tier II/Bin5 is the worst case scenario here in the states starting next year. Damn things couldn’t be sold in CA or the other Green States this year and CA. already has ULSD available … DCC is saying they will have the Blue-Tec/SCR CAT placed in their Diesel MB’s for 50 state certification available very soon. Cleaning a CI-ICE to US emission specs is not an inexpensive proposition by any stretch. Good Luck Wayne R. Gerdes
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