Last post on Feb 13, 2011 at 9:08 AM
You are in the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
What is this discussion about?
Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Montego, Sedan
#3014 of 3623 Re: 2008 Update...?! [mikeroch]
Dec 30, 2005 (3:58 pm)
The Focus is a much higher volume car for Ford, but they haven't made any significant appearance changes since it came out in 1999. They "promised" a refreshening for 2005, but I can barely see the differences, and I love cars. So I doubt they will change much on the Five Hundred, a lower volume car, externally, for 2008.
The whole "buzz" about an early update on the Five Hundred came due to initial "soft" sales (due to its bland appearance, I have heard! it screams "AARP").
But if sales pick up without a refreshening, or if Ford tightens their fiscal belt, I really doubt they will do much with the Five Hundred to "refresh" it in '07.
Plus, I'm not so sure making it look like a "big" Fusion is such a good idea to start with! (About on par with DC making the new Caliber replacement for the Neon look more like a Ram truck by putting a big grill on it, ha ha.)
Keep in mind the Crown Victoria lumbers forward with hardly any freshening. And the Five Hundred is "sort of" a replacement for the Crown Victoria.
That having been said, a better reason for taking timing into consideration with the Five Hundred, is that in my personal opinion the drivetrain on the Five Hundred is in limbo.
Although the acceleration tests indicate the 3.0 is MORE than adequate in this vehicle (8.5 or 8.9 0-60), complaints are widespread about the lack of a 3.5, particularly in a vehicle this size, and so a 3.5 should be in the Five Hundred soon, if only to stop the complaints. One is already slated for the Fusion, so it would be easy to modify for the Five Hundred.
The transmission is also in limbo - Ford presently buys the Japanese made Aisan 6 speed, but unlike most things Japanese, Japanese automatic transmissions have been under fire in the past few years, in both Hondas and Camrys. To make things worse (or maybe they learned their lesson and things are better, the Japanese industry seems to have a faster learning curve than Detroit) 6 speed transmissions are very new and therefore very much "cutting (or "bleeding") edge." The alternative CVT automatic transmission is probably doomed due to a lack of marketplace acceptance and unproven durability in high torque applications like this. Finally, Ford has its own, internally designed (with Chevy) 6 speed automatic in the wings, which, at least from a design standpoint, is getting a few good reviews, but once again is unproven in the field. The odds are this new home-grown transmission will show up as early as 2007, just when Ford and VW and others are finding out just how durable or quirky the Aisin 6 speeds are.
Hate to say it, but the 4 speeds from GM and DC look better and better to me, at least until there are some serious owner miles on the new 5 and 6 speeds; the DC 5 speed in the LX cars (300, Magnum, Charger) may be an exception because they are based on proven Mercedes technology, but on the other hand, Mercedes almost always implements designs that assume a certain degree of skilled maintenance, not always found in American service centers, and the translation from high-cost Mercedes to "tweaked to be simpler and cheaper" American product might make the DC 5 speeds as much as question mark at the other brands.
So hey, getting an '06 with the current Aisin 6 speed and current 3.0 and current sheet metal, might be as good as waiting, if not better - Aisin's 5 speed designs have been in Hondas and Camrys for a while, at least, and I haven't hear complaints; their 6 speed has been in the VW's and Fords for a year now. The 3.0 from Ford is solid as a rock. By '07 and '08, you may have to face double-trouble - both a new motor (3.5) and a new transmission (home-grown 6 speed). All of which may be perfectly fine, but I subscribe to the general rule of "new is unproven, and not worth it except for a specialty vehicle which has other qualities I strongly desire.)
I think the present Five Hundred is one of the best vehicles out there, bar none. It is a Volvo in Ford clothing (at least if you get the safety package with side air bags.) This is actually a great year for a Five Hundred. I'd be driving one now if the current promotions (Red Tag etc.) weren't such drivel.
#3015 of 3623 Re: 2008 Update...?! [micweb]
Dec 30, 2005 (4:11 pm)
Very interesting observations. I'd just add a couple of remarks.
Actually, DCX autos are quite inefficient, whose most publicized evidence was the 300M lagging competitors with the same power and weight.
On A5 in the Camry and Accord, there have been many complaints about the V6 engines of these cars, particularly the more powerful Honda, chewing these transmissions.
#3016 of 3623 Re: 2008 Update...?! [micweb]
Dec 30, 2005 (4:18 pm)
* The 2oo8 refreshing of the Five Hundred is locked in. If you think that a big Fusion look is not the way to go, you are probably going to be very disappointed in the changes.
* The 3.5 is also very much a go.
* The 6 speed Aisin trannies are also going, as in bye-bye. By the way, Aisin is a Toyota affiliate.
* The CVT may also not be offered in the Five Hundred/Montego, or if it is, if will probably not be offered with the new engine.
* Don't assume the Panther series (CV, GM) is going to continue. It may not.
And that's the way it is, or so it seems right now. Plans do change, but these are pretty much locked in (except the last one...)
Dec 30, 2005 (9:06 pm)
"Heard a rumor about the return of the SHO....Ford 500 with the Yamaha 4.4l V8 which is going into the Volvo XC-90 and other Volvo products. Have you heard anything??"
I heard that rumor before the 500 was released, ironically it's not based on anything. The reumor stemmed because of the "Oh because the 500 and XC90 share platforms, they will be able to stick the Yamaha V8 into the 500"... Hmm, well yes and no, let's disect it.
From the A-pillar forward, the 500 lacks some of the space needed to make the 4.4L along with it's 6A, fit. Works well in the XC90 because of it's height, but not for the 500.
Then we have allocation. How many V8's can be produced to not only fullfill the XC90s order, but those of the 500 which will be more widely produced, or be capped at a low 5K units yearly.
Then we have cost. The 4.4L V8, 6A requires the next generation AWD unit from Haldex, which is used on the XC90, while the 500 uses the prior generation. SO add that newer AWD system, into the mix. And let's not even factor the suspension enchancements required.
Your looking at an additional $6-8K on the sticker to make it viable. The last generation Taurus SHO with it's 3.4L DOHC V8 brought something interesting into the market. It was the only (if I remember correctly) DOHC V8 engine in the marketplace, under a $30K pricetag of the time.
By the time all is said and done, your looking at a $36-38K 500 SHO which might make it a hard sell.
Essentially, one of the next Lincoln sedans will solve the "SHO" rumor in other words
Last document I read, stated Panthers to die off a bit before by 2012. Granted, plans can change at anytime. If at that time the Panther still produce the rediculous profit they do now, then obviously Ford might keep them around a bit longer
#3018 of 3623 Re: AudiA8G [ANT14]
Dec 31, 2005 (3:53 am)
ANT14 - can the "spats" (aka mudguards) from the 2006 Montego (running change along with deletion of bodyside moldings and addition of color-keyed rocker panels) be used on the 2005 model? I see they are part of a TSB kit for the paint chipping. Can you get the part numbers for the spats? I've been unable to get them so far... Thanks!
Jan 01, 2006 (9:11 am)
You can probably get it from Flatratetech They could probably give you a quicker answer than I could. I'm on a long vacation now.
#3020 of 3623 Re: Avanti [ANT14]
Jan 01, 2006 (10:25 pm)
I'll give it a try - thanks.
#3021 of 3623 6 Speed vs. CVT ?!
Jan 03, 2006 (10:52 am)
Can anyone let me know their opinion and/or experience with respect to the differences in "engine/transmission" noise between the CVT and the 6 spd transmissions?! I have heard that the 6 speed might be quieter, and thus perhaps purchasing the limited in fwd instead of awd might be a good solution to our "noise problem" with the car....
Also, what is the difference in acceleration "capability" between the two transmissions?
Also, if anyone can post pictures of a limited "pebble" (tan) leather interior with the Nav and DVD options, if possible, or a link to same, that would be greatly appreciated....(preferably burgundy and blue exteriors also, if possible).
#3022 of 3623 Re: 6 Speed vs. CVT ?! [mikeroch]
Jan 03, 2006 (12:46 pm)
I have driven several 6spd and CVT models, and I own a Freestyle with CVT. The CVT feels a little slower off line, but is more responsive once under way. The CVT is constantly adjusting so the changes are not nearly as perceptible as in the 6spd which is shifting constantly to maintain power. I find the noise changes of the 6spd more distracting. In traffic, the CVT is much nicer. When climbing hills, the CVT does a terrific job with no lurches, or thumpy downshifts. This cannot be said for the 6spd. The question remains as to what will happen to the CVT when Ford gets its new GM-Ford 6spd. No burgundy or blue out there.
#3023 of 3623 FWD vs. AWD sales
Jan 04, 2006 (6:52 am)
Does anyone know what percentage of 500/Montegos are being sold with AWD?
No question that AWD adds weight, cost, friction and complexity. The result is higher fuel consumption and slower acceleration. That being said, those who bought AWD must have had a good reason. I am not knocking your choice since you know your needs/wants better than I, but I am curious about the reason you chose AWD, particularly if you live south of the snow belt.