Last post on Feb 13, 2011 at 8:08 AM
You are in the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
What is this discussion about?
Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Montego, Sedan
Jan 04, 2005 (7:22 pm)
A V-8 producing more HP and Torque in a Five Hundred? - it sure won't be one with a CVT - the current CVT just about handles the torque of the 3-liter which is why there is no rush to put a 3.5L with greater torque in the Five Hundred - Montego anytime in the "immediate" future.
The manufacture of the 3.5L (Duratec-35) is not scheduled until the end of 2005 and even then it is destined for other Ford products.
Jan 04, 2005 (8:03 pm)
The next Aviator will be the first to debut the Duratec35, after that, it'll be phased into many more products and kill off some other engine families.
Jan 05, 2005 (3:43 am)
The CVT is NOT the main issue delaying the 3.5. The ENGINE itself is. It ain't available yet. And I am sure many would be more than happy to accept a 3.5 with a six speed.
Thing is, most people who look at larger engines end up buying the base. But the larger engine gets them into the showroom to start with. Think Chrysler 300C. The surprise there has been even Chrysler has been shocked at how many actually ARE springing for the larger engine.
None of us knows what the price or availability of oil will be two years from now. If gasoline is unbelievably expensive, the CVT and 3.0 may continue to be the largest seller by far...you may even see the CVT show up in more than the base on the FWD side. If oil remains relatively cheap (ask our Canadians what they are paying for gasoline, then ask a Brit the same thing about petrol), the larger engine may sell well indeed.
All that being said, the power in my car is acceptable (AWD and CVT). Not thrilling, but acceptable. I would prefer the 3.5, and MAY buy one when they come out.
Then again, knowing me, I may have a Fusion by then. Or an HHR. HA HA HA HA! (yeah, right. I really want to drive a Cobalt with that body on it...yep....just a silly thought that won't last two minutes after I drive one!)
#2169 of 3623 Sable/Taurus versus 500/Montego
Jan 05, 2005 (3:57 am)
The main advantage I see of the 500/Montego over Taurus/Sable is safety and AWD. The taurus has never had good side impact protection (3 stars) wheras the competition (Accord/Camry) which was originally behind when it came to safety, has since surpassed Taurus in that department too.
After having drove both the Montego 6-speed and the AWD CVT and soon after borrowed someone's 2004 Sable for a day (same 200 HP engine), I was surprised that the Sable engine was considerably quieter even under hard acceleration. I do not understand why, unless the Sable has better sound insulation from the engine compartment. Even though the noise difference is only experienced during acceleration, I found it annoying, especially considering the less expensive Sable sounded as good in my opinion as an Accord, whereas the Montegeo should have been quieter, considering the extra cost and the fact that it is touted as a more premium automobile (which it is in everything expect engine noise)
Jan 05, 2005 (7:33 am)
One thing hurting the CVT is the cost of the tranny. The "chain" comes from LUK in Europe and the rising euro is making this transmission more expensive than it was suppose to be. This is why the FWD SE is getting the 6 speed AISEN unit.
Personally I would like to see a sleeper version of the 500 ala' the SHO Taurus. Something to give the showroom some draw.
This is a great time in history for auto enthusiasts. With the Auto Industry so fragmented and showing signs of becoming more so and the costs of building lots of unique models coming down compared to the past by using modern flexible factories and flexible chassis, we have more models then ever to choose from or at least since before the depression.
I just had a customer in the showroom yesterday who totally gushed over the 500. But then he was in the target demographic, an empty nester in late fifties. Unfortunately he was there with his son and it was his son who needed a car.
The 500 is a good product overall and so far so good. Imagine if this car got launched with the boondoggle of the Focus or the Tribscape?
I think we all have a good future to look forward too.
Jan 05, 2005 (5:14 pm)
I hope that the Duratec35 replaces the Vulcan, Duratec 30, 3.8L and 4.2L OHV, and German 4.0L SOHC in all applications. Except for Honda, most of the competition (I think) is moving away from 3 liters.
Jan 05, 2005 (5:41 pm)
The Duratec35 will replace the Essex V6's (3.8L 4.2L). The Vulcan will die when the current Ranger is replaced. The Duratec30 will take that spot, and other spots where the 2.3L peaks at, and the Duratec35 starts at (power wise).
The Duratec35 can ALSO grow, as is with minimal modifications. Whereas the Duratec30 was somewhat limited since it was spawned from the Duratec25, and reached it's pinnacle.
Jan 06, 2005 (10:30 pm)
Somebody questioned above but you didn't give an adequate answer: Will the new 3.5L Duratec be quieter than the current noisy 3.0L? and I mean A LOT quieter? because I think it's (and so all Ford engines) one of the most noisy engines found today, even compared to old tech pushrods from GM.
Especially the imports engines are extremely quiet - not just inside the car (protected with quiet steel or other gimmicks) but the engine itself is very quiet and refined, which adds a quality feel to the vehicle.
#2174 of 3623 I disagree somewhat, samnoe......
Jan 06, 2005 (11:46 pm)
I can name a few Ford engines that are stone quiet, and I will. The 3.9L Lincoln LS/Thunderbird V-8 is "quiet as a Rolls Royce" to re-coin a phrase from 1966. You can't tell they're running at idle. The old Cologne 4.0L V-6 is also amazingly quiet at warm idle and very well balanced for a 60 degree engine. The 4.6L modular V-8 is quiet enough for the Town Car and the geezers who drive them with the radio off all day or on AM, and you can't hear them idle, or feel them either. The Essex engines are cornbinders, I'll grant you that, but they're the oldest in the stable and gone soon anyway. Nothing is noisier than a Chevy Cavalier though, IMO, which sounds like a Cement Mixer at a crosswalk. I'm afraid to walk in front of one, never know if I'm going to lose a leg in the teeth or something.....
Jan 07, 2005 (12:12 am)
Yes the 3.5L will be very quiet, at least... all the ingredients are in there to make it quiet. Place the vehicle in a Mustang, and obviously it'll be tailored to make a bit of noise.
The VCT versions of the Duratec30 are quieter than the non VCT versions. (X-type, S-type, LS V6, Mazda6).
Ford's 3.9L/4.2L/4.4L (LS, Jag, LR) are one of the quietest Ford has. I've been able to stand a nickel on it's side on top of the engine, without it falling off of how smooth they are.
Ford's Essex 3.8/9 and 4.2L... Can qualify for farm machinery noise level.
Some GM engines might be a bit quieter, but I can point a few variants that have major fan noise eminating from under the hood. (specially the one's coupled with the 4.3L V6)
Saturns 3.0L, has a clickity whisp, caused by air rushing between 2 accessories mounted onto the engine.
Saturns 1.9L, far from being quiet.
GM's Ecotec's (as were the Quad-Cams) far from being quiet.
GM's Vortec, class action suit being organized for the piston-slap issue. Tick Tick Tick Tick.
GM's 3.8L is one of the quieter one's, then again the engine is older than myself, so you figure after so many years, they narrowed the NVH down.
Many of Toyota's 2.2L, clatters after a few years of usage, as Accord 2.2L.
Honda's Vtec derived 1.6L also have a running clatter when warmed up.
Nissans 3.5L a very quiet overall, although the new 4.0L seems to be noiser.
VW (like they don't have enough issues) the 1.8L clatters after a few years.
Chrysler's 3.8L, I cursed after I closed the hood. The 2.4L I think cursed back at me.
These are just some that popped into my head at 3am.