Last post on Feb 13, 2011 at 8:08 AM
You are in the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
What is this discussion about?
Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Montego, Sedan
Nov 23, 2004 (4:57 pm)
Actually, since its introduction in its most recent version, the Lexus ES has had a very modest price increase while stepping up the standard equipment. Velour used to be the standard fabric, but world-class LS-grade (Lexus, not Lincoln, lol) leather is now the standard.
The base price including MSRP of the 2002 ES300 (with no leather, smaller V6, 16 inch wheels) was $32,080.
The base price including MSRP of the 2005 ES330 is $32,675.
(Given the upgrades, I hardly feel $595 is significant. A 1.8% is hardly ahead of the very mild inflation the US has seen in three year's time.)
One thing very interesting is that despite the new Avalon's significant power (280 hp and 260 foot pounds), and that it will lack a sixth ratio that the Five Hundred has, Toyota is estimating its MPG to be 22/30, from the leaked literature that has been posted on the Future Vehicles forum.
Even if it comes in at 20/28, I'd take it as a happier compromise than the Ford powertrain, in terms of power and MPG portfolio.
Personally, I do think it is a mis step for Toyota to not offer AWD, but perhaps this will be one point of differentiation for the Avalon and the lower strata Lexus models.
Given Toyota's most recent introductions, I think the line will be held on pricing for similarly equipped iterations of the new vehicle. An XL with moderate equipment for $27,000 seems very reasonable. Its just that there will be 2 new trim lines (Touring and Limited) and many new options that will likely push the car, IMO, to $38,000 fully loaded. And likely worth every penny. The vehicle's interior looks exquisite.
#1838 of 3623 Re: Avalon pricing, content of Ford vs Toyota [fsmmcsi]
Nov 23, 2004 (6:18 pm)
It looks like Ford was not so much "out of money" by not offering nav. cooled seats, etc. but rather than that they were rally trying to keep the top end price below $30K. There are bufget and scheduling issues on the power train side to be sure, but all those other goodies are available from the Ford parts bin now.
Nov 23, 2004 (6:48 pm)
You don't want to load up the 500 with too many toys just yet, when Lincoln will have it's own version....
#1840 of 3623 Don't load up now = Don't make money now
Nov 23, 2004 (10:49 pm)
How can "don't load it up now" be anything more than "don't make money now." Why not sell things people would buy? Or, do they really think that enough of us will pay $15,000 more for a Five Hundred / Montego just to have a Lincoln instead of a Ford or Mercury badge? If so, that is an insult to buyers. Yes, there will be some who will fall for it, but enough?
I have almost overcome my resistance to the lack of power, and the tight leg/foot space (crosswise) of the Ford products. I just looked at a Montego Premier AWD in French Silk with the two tone pebble interior on Sunday, but couldn't drive it, since it was in the showroom. It is a very attractive car.
I have known that the new Avalon was coming and would probably be at the January auto shows, but did not expect it to be much more than different front, rear, and instrument panel designs on a current Camry. Instead, it is full of significant technologies and features, and has a downright beautiful interior. It will be out just when I am buying (January / February), and I will definitely not buy a Montego before driving the Avalon.
#1841 of 3623 Re: Don't load up now = Don't make money now [fsmmcsi]
Nov 24, 2004 (10:05 am)
Thats right- the Avalon redesign is a full makeover, with the switch from the previous Camry platform (92-01) to the current. The Avalon right now, like most 5 year old designs, is a decent car, but eclipsed by the competition at the price.
Glad Toyota decided to make side curtains and airbags standard on all trim levels. I would have at least thought Ford would have gone this route with the Montego.
#1842 of 3623 Re: VW issues [avenger1]
Nov 24, 2004 (12:43 pm)
This is a perfect example of how someone just makes assumptions about quality without the facts.
For instance, the 2002 Passat is know for its engine problems, including ignition coil failure and mass air flow sensor problems, and water pump failure.
MSN gives the same overall reliablity rating for the 2002 Ford Taurus which is known for fuel pump problems and DPFE sensor failure.
THEN there is the oil sludge problem.
here is an August 04 article from autoweek titled: Oil sludge woes plague VW; automaker to pay for engine repairs, extend warranties
First you had car companies requiring you to put PREMIUM gas in your family hauler. Now VW goes one step further and makes you use FULL SYENTHETIC oil. Any one know what a dealer charges for a Passat Oil Change?
ALL FORD CARS and TRUCKS (excepting maybe the T-Bird and the GT) are designed to use 87 octane gas. THIS includes the new Mustang GT!
FORDS also use a syenthetic BLEND motor oil (5w-20).
My dealership will change the oil and rotate the tires for under $40.00.
Anyway, if Ford has a problem, its that in the past, it let its reputation get tarnished and it has failed to get its quality message out.
FORD never gets the credit it deserves.
For instance, NOT only did FORD launch a brand new pick-up truck with redesigned engines and transmissions, it raised Initial Quality over the old model which was already highest in its class!
So I say if your idea of quality is paying $60.00 or more for an oil change then i say ENJOY.
#1843 of 3623 Rough Grain on the plastics
Nov 24, 2004 (12:53 pm)
I dont find the plastics to be shiny as much as they have a very rough grain these seems to be a European thing but I don't like it.
I like a smoother grain over all like in my 02 Mazda Protege and 97 Escort wagon.
We just got in a Freestyle Limited Black with Black interior. This is a sharp car.
I still say that the value of the FIVE HUNDRED is greatest at the lower trim levels. An SEL FWD has a base sticker of $24,995.00. With dealer discount, you can still get Leather and a moon roof and be UNDER 25k
AND you know a rebate HAS to be in the future. I think a 2k rebate on these cars would totally seal the fate on the competition...
As for comparing the FIVE HUNDRED AWD to front or rear drive cars this really isn't fair.
Nov 24, 2004 (1:08 pm)
"AND you know a rebate HAS to be in the future. I think a 2k rebate on these cars would totally seal the fate on the competition..."
More like seal the fate on drastically reduced profits for the vehicle line and its extensions, given that these brand new models will be around for at least 5 years largely unchanged save the new engine. Not to mention a negative impact on resale/perceived value.
The Five Hundred seems a very good car. But in 2004, all newly introduced cars are very good. IMO, Ford was very smart to offer AWD, as it can serve as a point of differentation, especially given the value equation. Still... the car car suffers from several "misses"... optional equipment, power, and style among them. But if carrying 8 golf bags is your dream....
For me, the Five Hundred shows that Ford is in the right direction, they just need to progress down the path. Hopefully that will occur with coming models such as the Fusion and Zephyr. The Mustang looks tremendous as well. But the Five Hundred class leading? No, not quite.
Nov 24, 2004 (1:19 pm)
I do not think Ford even requires a semisynthetic oil, unless they changed something in their specs since I bought my 2000 Taurus SES Duratec.
I use standard 5W30 of any brand name that is on sale and buy OEM Motorcraft filters, usually less than $4.00 each(not from the dealer, of course, but from a discount auto parts store). I usually buy my oil with rebates for $.59 a quart or less. Total cost for changing my own oil is about $8 or less, and I have the convenience of scheduling it myself, right in my own driveway.
Since it is so cheap to do myself, I do change oil often, at about 3000 miles or so.
I agree, VW's are not a model of reliability, and they usually are overpriced as well, for what you get.
Incidently, the DPFE sensor is subject to an extended warranty on my Taurus and I have had no fuel pump problems, or for that matter, much of any other issues except some minor things that were covered under warranty. So, in 42K of miles to date, no non-routine maintenance costs at all.