Last post on Feb 13, 2011 at 8:08 AM
You are in the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
What is this discussion about?
Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Montego, Sedan
#173 of 3623 emt, I hear you
Jan 06, 2004 (7:06 pm)
and share your concern Re: the ZF/CVT especially when it is a joint venture with Ford that began in 1998 wherein Ford owns 49%.. ZF in Batavia, Ohio was supposed to ship its first CVTs in 2001. They did'nt make that schedule stating "A product which isn't ready cannot be sold." More than two years later they began supplying CVTs. Ford and ZF have denied any manufacturing or quality glitches even though they have scaled back significantly since then in their initial projection that Batavia would produce one million CVTs by 2005. Here again they state that if the CVT does well, Batavia in the future would be solely dedicated to CVTs phasing out the 4 speed automatics made there for Ford & Mazada vehicles. At Batavia the CVT models they make are the CFT23 & the CFT30 with differences in size and capability. The 23 cannot handle anything above 2.3L with maximum torque at 169lb. The 30 will be in the Five Hundred/Freestyle AWDs can accomodate up to a 3.L engine with maximum torque of 221lb. The current Duratec 30 spec. for the Five Hundred is 3.L 200HP with 200lbs of torque. They are working on concepts that would handle higher torque. I would guess they have to with the Duratec 35 on the horizon, although I don't know that engines HP or torque specification.
Nissan is a leader of CVT technolgy since the 1970s - with their CVT products mainly in Asia & Europe. Their largest CVT being on the Murano, a Freestyle competitor, sold here in the US with 245HP 3.5L v6 with 246lbs of torque, a record for CVT torque capacity. A check of the Murano board here at Edmunds shows there are some problems but for the most part many are content with the CVT after a period of ajustment in getting used to it.
My hope for the Five Hundred is that the CVT and all goes off without any hitch.
Jan 06, 2004 (8:14 pm)
Very good, you have kept up well with Ford's CVT development
#175 of 3623 thanks buckwheat
Jan 07, 2004 (8:33 am)
My Eagle was the straw that broke the camels back and I went to Japanese cars since. I have a Subaru and Toyota that have never been back to the dealer other than for routine maint. Having a tranny rated for 221 ft. lbs of torque hooked up to an engine that is rated at 200 is asking for trouble I think. GM pulled this type of stunt in the mid 70's with the famous "metric" 3 speed auto. It could not handle the power of the small V-8's. I hope it all works for Ford as I think this is their last shot to get customers back into the fold.
Jan 07, 2004 (8:52 am)
I think it is quite a stretch to say the least, to relate tranmission problems in an Eagle Premier to the CVT transmission that will show up in the 500 just because they both may have come from the same transmission manufacturer. The Eagle Premier was the last gasp design thrown together by the AMC/Renault alliance before Chrysler bought it all and flushed down the drain all but the Jeep line. Eagle Premier was by all accounts a bust with numerous major quality problems.
That being said, I would still not myself go with a CVT from any manufacturer, foreign or domestic in the first year of production, I prefer to buy what has been on the market at least a year or two or three. Just my conservative nature, I guess.
Looks feature wise the 500 will have the bases pretty well covered in the full size-large sedan market currently served by Avalon, Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick LeSabre, and Ford's own Crown Victoria.
#177 of 3623 you are right badgerfan
Jan 07, 2004 (11:12 am)
I agree with you, I will only consider the 500 after it has been on the market at least a year. The 500 is a great looking car and is the only domestic (family) car out there that I really like the looks of. Hopefully the Ford-ZF venture will work well. With all the troubles I had with a ZF tranny though, you can understand my feelings. Take care
Jan 07, 2004 (11:48 am)
There's also the 6 Speed automatic option on FWD models, for those who do not wish to deal with the CVT. And later the 3.5L will be implemented, so that might be another good reason to wait a bit.
#179 of 3623 Buying vs Waiting
Jan 07, 2004 (3:07 pm)
The distance someone drives is probably the most significant factor in deciding to buy when the new cars come out or to wait one year. For people such as myself who drive much more than average (I drove 29,000 miles for business in 2003), the potential benefits of waiting one year have to be balanced against one year of enjoyment of a new Five Hundred / Montego. Ford and Mercury dealers will not be able to mark the cars up or demand full sticker, so there is no price issue.
Jan 07, 2004 (4:44 pm)
Yes good point. If someone generally keeps there vehicles 5+ years, I would say maybe waiting a year, might not hurt. But there's some (like myself as well) that can tack on miles quickly, and don't have much of a choice but get what is available.
I had a 2000 Lincoln LS8 which I just replaced a few months ago, and that vehicle had 121K without any warranty repairs. I was holding off for the new Mustang but considering production will not start till August of this year, simply I couldn't wait. Hence, I had to get another LS and I guess I must wait till next year's '06 model.
Jan 07, 2004 (9:23 pm)
"I hope it all works for Ford as I think this is their last shot to get customers back into the fold."
A lot of us have very pleased with our Ford products generally, and never left.
Jan 08, 2004 (6:02 pm)
If you mean to imply the Five Hundred will compete with the full size cars you mentioned in your post, Avalon etc. I agree, but to be accurate Ford classifies its flagship to be, the Five Hundred, as being a midsize car, albeit at the top of the midsize sedan segment, a car with a large size interior. An obvious distinction when it comes to insurance. Even with all the hoopla about more usable space if you match vehicle specifications with these other vehicles, say the Ford Crown Victoria, there is not any overwhelmingly more space but you then have to remember your matching midsize to full size and under those circumstances the Five Hundred is a clear winner in that respect.