Last post on Feb 13, 2011 at 9:08 AM
You are in the Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
What is this discussion about?
Ford Five Hundred, Mercury Montego, Sedan
#171 of 3623 All Manufacturers Have Had Transmission Problems
Jan 06, 2004 (10:31 am)
Ford and just about all of the other manufacturers have had problems with automatic transmissions in the 1990s. Before then, it was routine to expect over 100,000 miles before problems.
However, Ford and the others have been putting money and effort into improving their existing designs and coming out with completely new transmissions.
Other manufacturers have been successful with CVTs, and CVTs are far less complicated than traditional automatic transmissions.
Of course, buying a brand new model in the first year is a trade-off between having the benefits immediately and dealing with flaws which will be corrected later. An extended warranty may be a good idea.
Ford will have the new 3.5 Liter V6 for the 2006 model year, so that may be annother reason to wait.
Still, I think that once we have all seen and driven a Five Hundred, Montego, or Freestyle, it will be quite difficult to wait.
Dec 09, 2003 (5:17 pm)
The transmission is being made by ZF-Batavia, and thoroughly tested. Much has changed since the days of the Eagle Premeire though.
"Will GM yet design a car for the masses with DOHC and V6 format."
This isn't an area that GM will concentrate on. They insist on using OHV designed engines, and try to save face stating publically that in the future they are able to implement (displacement on demand-cylinder deactivating for fuel efficiency). Then about a month later Honda stated it could do that with it's OHC engines.
Now they revamping their OHV engines and improving it in other ways, YET there's no mistaking it for anything but a OHV, specially how they sound. Yet while they work this plan out, they are offering OHC engines on their Buick Rendezvous (previously had a OHV) stating that it's what their customer's want.
The Saturn VUE Redline will use Honda 3.5L OHC engine, in a deal with GM. Saturn has always used OHC designed engines. This a brand that they started to woo import lovers back to GM.
Is this to say their lower branded customer's actually want OHV while ALL the other competitors are offering OHC ? Or can we view this as other's could get a better engine offering at the competition ? Or is GM trying to say that they'll please those willing to pay for a Buick and Cadillac, but not those of the lower makes ?
#173 of 3623 emt, I hear you
Jan 06, 2004 (8:06 pm)
and share your concern Re: the ZF/CVT especially when it is a joint venture with Ford that began in 1998 wherein Ford owns 49%.. ZF in Batavia, Ohio was supposed to ship its first CVTs in 2001. They did'nt make that schedule stating "A product which isn't ready cannot be sold." More than two years later they began supplying CVTs. Ford and ZF have denied any manufacturing or quality glitches even though they have scaled back significantly since then in their initial projection that Batavia would produce one million CVTs by 2005. Here again they state that if the CVT does well, Batavia in the future would be solely dedicated to CVTs phasing out the 4 speed automatics made there for Ford & Mazada vehicles. At Batavia the CVT models they make are the CFT23 & the CFT30 with differences in size and capability. The 23 cannot handle anything above 2.3L with maximum torque at 169lb. The 30 will be in the Five Hundred/Freestyle AWDs can accomodate up to a 3.L engine with maximum torque of 221lb. The current Duratec 30 spec. for the Five Hundred is 3.L 200HP with 200lbs of torque. They are working on concepts that would handle higher torque. I would guess they have to with the Duratec 35 on the horizon, although I don't know that engines HP or torque specification.
Nissan is a leader of CVT technolgy since the 1970s - with their CVT products mainly in Asia & Europe. Their largest CVT being on the Murano, a Freestyle competitor, sold here in the US with 245HP 3.5L v6 with 246lbs of torque, a record for CVT torque capacity. A check of the Murano board here at Edmunds shows there are some problems but for the most part many are content with the CVT after a period of ajustment in getting used to it.
My hope for the Five Hundred is that the CVT and all goes off without any hitch.
Jan 06, 2004 (9:14 pm)
Very good, you have kept up well with Ford's CVT development
#175 of 3623 thanks buckwheat
Jan 07, 2004 (9:33 am)
My Eagle was the straw that broke the camels back and I went to Japanese cars since. I have a Subaru and Toyota that have never been back to the dealer other than for routine maint. Having a tranny rated for 221 ft. lbs of torque hooked up to an engine that is rated at 200 is asking for trouble I think. GM pulled this type of stunt in the mid 70's with the famous "metric" 3 speed auto. It could not handle the power of the small V-8's. I hope it all works for Ford as I think this is their last shot to get customers back into the fold.
Jan 07, 2004 (9:52 am)
I think it is quite a stretch to say the least, to relate tranmission problems in an Eagle Premier to the CVT transmission that will show up in the 500 just because they both may have come from the same transmission manufacturer. The Eagle Premier was the last gasp design thrown together by the AMC/Renault alliance before Chrysler bought it all and flushed down the drain all but the Jeep line. Eagle Premier was by all accounts a bust with numerous major quality problems.
That being said, I would still not myself go with a CVT from any manufacturer, foreign or domestic in the first year of production, I prefer to buy what has been on the market at least a year or two or three. Just my conservative nature, I guess.
Looks feature wise the 500 will have the bases pretty well covered in the full size-large sedan market currently served by Avalon, Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick LeSabre, and Ford's own Crown Victoria.
#177 of 3623 you are right badgerfan
Jan 07, 2004 (12:12 pm)
I agree with you, I will only consider the 500 after it has been on the market at least a year. The 500 is a great looking car and is the only domestic (family) car out there that I really like the looks of. Hopefully the Ford-ZF venture will work well. With all the troubles I had with a ZF tranny though, you can understand my feelings. Take care
Jan 07, 2004 (12:48 pm)
There's also the 6 Speed automatic option on FWD models, for those who do not wish to deal with the CVT. And later the 3.5L will be implemented, so that might be another good reason to wait a bit.
#179 of 3623 Buying vs Waiting
Jan 07, 2004 (4:07 pm)
The distance someone drives is probably the most significant factor in deciding to buy when the new cars come out or to wait one year. For people such as myself who drive much more than average (I drove 29,000 miles for business in 2003), the potential benefits of waiting one year have to be balanced against one year of enjoyment of a new Five Hundred / Montego. Ford and Mercury dealers will not be able to mark the cars up or demand full sticker, so there is no price issue.
Jan 07, 2004 (5:44 pm)
Yes good point. If someone generally keeps there vehicles 5+ years, I would say maybe waiting a year, might not hurt. But there's some (like myself as well) that can tack on miles quickly, and don't have much of a choice but get what is available.
I had a 2000 Lincoln LS8 which I just replaced a few months ago, and that vehicle had 121K without any warranty repairs. I was holding off for the new Mustang but considering production will not start till August of this year, simply I couldn't wait. Hence, I had to get another LS and I guess I must wait till next year's '06 model.