Last post on Jul 07, 2005 at 3:47 PM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
What is this discussion about?
Nissan Titan, Ford F-150, Exterior, Engine, Interior, Transmission, Truck
Apr 08, 2004 (9:53 pm)
Geez, I love the "double standard" accusation.... I don't think anybody gets crapped on more than Ford does across the board! Every car mag in the country has reported that the Aviator has been cancelled for "poor sales", when in fact, it has met expected sales every month, I think, and is being redesigned, not cancelled for 2006. No, there's not a double standard there.
I like Nissan. I own an Infiniti. I like the Titan and Armada.
As I said, it's a good first effort, better than Toyota did twice. I just don't see many around these parts, and I see tons of new F-150s everywhere I look. I see tons of new Rams around. That's all I'm saying.
Apr 09, 2004 (3:42 am)
That "Import" stigma is tough to overcome.
I don't care if they don't meet projections - I'm satisfied - and only hope the Service dept at my local Nissan dealer is more professional than the local "5-star" Dodge folks were.
#582 of 1169 nvbanker
Apr 09, 2004 (4:32 am)
"As I said, it's a good first effort, better than Toyota did twice. I just don't see many around these parts, and I see tons of new F-150s everywhere I look. I see tons of new Rams around. That's all I'm saying."
Cool - didn't mean to jump on you. I also think the F-150 is a very good truck. I just think Nissan one-upped them with a more advanced product. There are things better about the Ford and there are things better about the Titan. My only thing is Ford should have been able to outdo Nissan and they didn't. A friend who test drove the Ford said although it is better than the old Ford, it just didn't seem to be a big jump ahead like he thought it would.
As to sales, it doesn't matter if Nissan built the best vehicle ever, it would take many years to start substantially hurting the sales of Ford or GM (maybe Dodge). The big three trucks are just to "apple pie" for two many Americans.
Apr 09, 2004 (6:08 pm)
"And you also prove my point of double standard with your give Ford more time as they haven't got up to full production yet. My point was that Nissan hasn't got up to full production either."
My mention of them not yet ramping up the other 3 factories wasn't a "Oh the sales are slow because they still have 2 more to go", it was with the intentions of just sharing. No "hidden agenda there".
The double standard doesn't play when it's ONE factory going full speed (Titan's) which is easier to ramp up, over 4 different factories, in different states, ONE in another country having to change everything over, onto the new series.
Ok, from the records I'm seeing, you want Jan-March sales?.... For 2001, 204,488 and 197,770
for 2002. Compare it with these years Jan-Mar 209,021. This year's number's are still ahead than the year's you have mentioned.
Now, I'm guessing your point is, going with the number's of 941K units sold, which were accomplished after 9-11. Which those rebates helped boost that years sales to 941K units.
Now, I can tell you this much personally, Ford has made mention they wish to sell 1MIL units, for this year, but later re-assessed the situation and saw that might be a bit hard to reach because the factories have not yet gone full capacity. And they will have to run 3 shifts (overtime) to do so (the current one's are already on overtime). If it does happen, expect it for next year's number since not all factories are on-line.
"Unfortunately for the old F-150 and the new F-150, Ford is losing market share, even this year when compared to 2001 and 2002!!! "
Yes, that part is correct, If Johnny made and sold 3 kites, and Cindy made just 1, Johnny had 75% of the market. But if now Timmy is joining the market, and is making Kites and he has made/sold 1, now Johnny has just 60% of the market, because Timmy just joined in and the market has more products to sell. That doesn't take much common sense to see.
But the truck segment is still growing, Johnny can produce 4-5 kites, and he still might not have the 75% market share he enjoyed, BUT it's 1-2 more units and PROFITS that he is enjoying.
Class dismissed, cause I must retire and have dinner soon.
Apr 09, 2004 (8:44 pm)
You must be looking at different #s. As to ramping up - Nissan has been increasing production each month - their sales are not below expectations but are right where they wanted them.
"But the truck segment is still growing, Johnny can produce 4-5 kites, and he still might not have the 75% market share he enjoyed, BUT it's 1-2 more units and PROFITS that he is enjoying."
Man you guys are die-hards - In order to sell that 1-2 more units, Johnny has cut his price (can you say rebates - I thought so!) so his profits end up being less and he isn't enjoying them as much as his investment has increased (business 101) so his return is less.
Go eat supper and enjoy! I will contiue class on my terms as Ford cries the blues
Apr 09, 2004 (8:59 pm)
Sorry - I didn't go back far enough. silly me!
2000 - 221,770 1999 - 213,910
Then again, the increases of of 2004 over 2002, 2001 are sure not the same as over 2003 - which was my point in the first place. 2% and 6% in a growing market isn't something to write home about.
Time for a beer. Ant have a good one! Cheers!
Apr 09, 2004 (9:10 pm)
"You must be looking at different #s. As to ramping up - Nissan has been increasing production each month - their sales are not below expectations but are right where they wanted them."
I have at no time, questioned Nissan's sale. Nor am I going to hunt for them, since I don't CARE NOR, at any time have mentioned their number's since my point HAS NEVER BEEN, about number's, since ALL I posted recently, dealt with the awards the F-150 has received. The number's situation was something someone else had mentioned.
Yes, for 2000-2001, the Jan-March number's were higher than for this Jan-March of 2004. The factories were running overtime those years, this year with only 2 fully ramped going overtime on 3 shifts, they can't make as much. But for those years, what's the point when the rest of the year's, the number's weren't as strong throughout.
"Johnny has cut his price (can you say rebates - I thought so!) so his profits end up being less and he isn't enjoying them as much as his investment has increased (business 101) so his return is less."
Johnny's kites are looking much better overall and he's offering more decorations with them....So the higher end (more profittable) kites are selling more so than the lower end kites. Johnny has special sales on the cheaper kites, but since the high end kites are making 70-80% of it's new sales, Johnny is enjoying a much better bottom line, than the previous year, where the higher end kites made only 43-50% of overall sales.
Since Johnny's new kites have been phased in, he has been able to work with supplier to lower the cost of producing his kites. So he's now enjoying even more of a profit, to offset any rebates he might be placing on his kites.
#588 of 1169 If the F-150 isn't the gold standard in trucks.....
Apr 11, 2004 (9:42 pm)
Then why has Toyota tried twice to copy it almost exactly, with the Tundra, and why has Nissan used it as the "truck to beat" when designing the Titan? Now, maybe the Titan has eclipsed it in some ways, maybe not. Certainly, they have come closer than anybody else. No question it will have an impact. No question, people will buy it. The Dr. across the street bought one, traded in his F-250 on it. He's not sure he made the right move though.....it has a few design quirks he's not thrilled with - other things he likes a lot. Time will tell.
#589 of 1169 To: keanec, be careful with what you ask for
Apr 13, 2004 (10:57 am)
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Nissan's truck sales stumble
By Kathy Jackson
Automotive News / April 12, 2004
Nissan is struggling with disappointing sales for three models built at its 1-year-old plant in Canton, Miss.
Dealers are having trouble meeting sales projections for the full-sized Titan pickup and Armada SUV. And Nissan already has backed down from aggressive sales projections for its restyled Quest minivan launched last summer.
Nissan committed $1.4 billion to construct a multivehicle assembly plant in Canton to produce the Titan pickup, Quest minivan, Armada SUV and its QX56 Infiniti version, as well as the Altima sedan.
"More marketing is needed," says Jed Connelly, senior vice president for sales and marketing at Nissan North America Inc.
He says Nissan will begin a round of regional advertising for the Titan beginning this month and for the Armada in June.
Up - selectively
Overall, Nissan sales rose 32.8 percent through the first three months of the year compared with 2003. But its Altima sedan - in one of the United States' most competitive and low-margin segments - is carrying the weight.
Nissan launched its first full-sized pickup in December. It predicted sales of 100,000 Titans during its first full year on the market. The Armada went on sale in October with expectations of 40,000 sales in 2004.
In the first quarter, Nissan sold just 14,207 Titans and 7,633 Armadas. When Nissan introduced the Quest in July, executives predicted sales of 80,000 to 85,000 in 2004. But volume has been between 3,000 and 4,000 a month.
The Armada "has the right hardware and pricing, but the name Armada is new to the industry," Connelly says. "You can't overestimate the time it takes to seed a new name in the marketplace."
Meanwhile, inventory is piling up for the three Nissan trucks. The company had a 110-day supply of Armadas on April 1, a 97-day supply of Quests and a 95-day supply of Titans.
"We're ramping up on Titan," Connelly says. "Trucks are unlike cars. We like to run a 50-day supply of cars. But we found out days' supply of trucks need to be higher - about 75 days. That's because truck buyers like to see a lot more models."
Nissan says the lower-than-expected factory volumes are not a problem. Canton's total capacity of 400,000 vehicles a year is divided among five products and two brands. Workers there can move from one product to another.
Production of the Quest and Altima are expected to total 250,000 units a year. That leaves 150,000 units of annual production for the three big body-on-frame trucks.
After the launch, Nissan heavily advertised both the Titan and Armada for several weeks, then pulled back.
But the Titan faces powerfully entrenched competition. It is up against the redesigned Ford F series as well as the Chevrolet Silverado, GMC Sierra and Dodge Ram. And Toyota will be in the market soon with a successor to its Tundra full-sized pickup. The Armada competes against the Ford Expedition and the Chevrolet Tahoe.
Nissan's smaller Murano SUV, introduced in late 2002, took time to catch on. "Murano was a new name but maybe not in as competitive a segment," Connelly says.
Though Nissan will begin advertising the Titan and Armada again, he says the ad budget is limited.
"Right now we're moving marketing dollars around; there are no incremental dollars," he says. "We want to continue the weight on Titan and Armada. Titan and Altima are the two core products for us. When we advertised the Titan, hits on our Web site went through the roof. As soon as we stopped advertising, hits went down."