Last post on Jul 07, 2005 at 2:47 PM
You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
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Nissan Titan, Ford F-150, Exterior, Engine, Interior, Transmission, Truck
Apr 08, 2004 (7:36 pm)
"I do know this, though, with all the talk about how great the sales of the new F-150 is, the sales level still haven't reached levels in 2002 and 2001. "
Not correect....SO far this year (Jan-Mar) sales are up to 209,021, compared with last year's (Jan-Mar) 183,544. That's a 13.9% increase overall. Since it's release, they have reached double digit percentage increases each month.
Sales for the month of March itself were 80,056 compared with last year's 67,697, an increase of 18.3% for the month of March.
So far there's still 2 factories left that have yet shifted to the new F-150, and will do so by the end of the summer.
You say I am not correct but then you throw figures from 2003!!!!!!!! Where did I say 2003? Go get your figures and prove that I am incorrect. I said 2002 and 2001. You will not find 18% increases.
And you also prove my point of double standard with your give Ford more time as they haven't got up to full production yet. My point was that Nissan hasn't got up to full production either.
What the new F-150 has down is reverse the decline of the old one. It has yet to reach the heights (I am not saying it won't) of the old f-150 in prior years - not 2003 which was a horrendous year for the F-150.
I fact, the pickup market has really being growing over the last number of years. Unfortunately for the old F-150 and the new F-150, Ford is losing market share, even this year when compared to 2001 and 2002!!!
Apr 08, 2004 (8:53 pm)
Geez, I love the "double standard" accusation.... I don't think anybody gets crapped on more than Ford does across the board! Every car mag in the country has reported that the Aviator has been cancelled for "poor sales", when in fact, it has met expected sales every month, I think, and is being redesigned, not cancelled for 2006. No, there's not a double standard there.
I like Nissan. I own an Infiniti. I like the Titan and Armada.
As I said, it's a good first effort, better than Toyota did twice. I just don't see many around these parts, and I see tons of new F-150s everywhere I look. I see tons of new Rams around. That's all I'm saying.
Apr 09, 2004 (2:42 am)
That "Import" stigma is tough to overcome.
I don't care if they don't meet projections - I'm satisfied - and only hope the Service dept at my local Nissan dealer is more professional than the local "5-star" Dodge folks were.
#582 of 1169 nvbanker
Apr 09, 2004 (3:32 am)
"As I said, it's a good first effort, better than Toyota did twice. I just don't see many around these parts, and I see tons of new F-150s everywhere I look. I see tons of new Rams around. That's all I'm saying."
Cool - didn't mean to jump on you. I also think the F-150 is a very good truck. I just think Nissan one-upped them with a more advanced product. There are things better about the Ford and there are things better about the Titan. My only thing is Ford should have been able to outdo Nissan and they didn't. A friend who test drove the Ford said although it is better than the old Ford, it just didn't seem to be a big jump ahead like he thought it would.
As to sales, it doesn't matter if Nissan built the best vehicle ever, it would take many years to start substantially hurting the sales of Ford or GM (maybe Dodge). The big three trucks are just to "apple pie" for two many Americans.
Apr 09, 2004 (5:08 pm)
"And you also prove my point of double standard with your give Ford more time as they haven't got up to full production yet. My point was that Nissan hasn't got up to full production either."
My mention of them not yet ramping up the other 3 factories wasn't a "Oh the sales are slow because they still have 2 more to go", it was with the intentions of just sharing. No "hidden agenda there".
The double standard doesn't play when it's ONE factory going full speed (Titan's) which is easier to ramp up, over 4 different factories, in different states, ONE in another country having to change everything over, onto the new series.
Ok, from the records I'm seeing, you want Jan-March sales?.... For 2001, 204,488 and 197,770
for 2002. Compare it with these years Jan-Mar 209,021. This year's number's are still ahead than the year's you have mentioned.
Now, I'm guessing your point is, going with the number's of 941K units sold, which were accomplished after 9-11. Which those rebates helped boost that years sales to 941K units.
Now, I can tell you this much personally, Ford has made mention they wish to sell 1MIL units, for this year, but later re-assessed the situation and saw that might be a bit hard to reach because the factories have not yet gone full capacity. And they will have to run 3 shifts (overtime) to do so (the current one's are already on overtime). If it does happen, expect it for next year's number since not all factories are on-line.
"Unfortunately for the old F-150 and the new F-150, Ford is losing market share, even this year when compared to 2001 and 2002!!! "
Yes, that part is correct, If Johnny made and sold 3 kites, and Cindy made just 1, Johnny had 75% of the market. But if now Timmy is joining the market, and is making Kites and he has made/sold 1, now Johnny has just 60% of the market, because Timmy just joined in and the market has more products to sell. That doesn't take much common sense to see.
But the truck segment is still growing, Johnny can produce 4-5 kites, and he still might not have the 75% market share he enjoyed, BUT it's 1-2 more units and PROFITS that he is enjoying.
Class dismissed, cause I must retire and have dinner soon.
Apr 09, 2004 (7:44 pm)
You must be looking at different #s. As to ramping up - Nissan has been increasing production each month - their sales are not below expectations but are right where they wanted them.
"But the truck segment is still growing, Johnny can produce 4-5 kites, and he still might not have the 75% market share he enjoyed, BUT it's 1-2 more units and PROFITS that he is enjoying."
Man you guys are die-hards - In order to sell that 1-2 more units, Johnny has cut his price (can you say rebates - I thought so!) so his profits end up being less and he isn't enjoying them as much as his investment has increased (business 101) so his return is less.
Go eat supper and enjoy! I will contiue class on my terms as Ford cries the blues
Apr 09, 2004 (7:59 pm)
Sorry - I didn't go back far enough. silly me!
2000 - 221,770 1999 - 213,910
Then again, the increases of of 2004 over 2002, 2001 are sure not the same as over 2003 - which was my point in the first place. 2% and 6% in a growing market isn't something to write home about.
Time for a beer. Ant have a good one! Cheers!
Apr 09, 2004 (8:10 pm)
"You must be looking at different #s. As to ramping up - Nissan has been increasing production each month - their sales are not below expectations but are right where they wanted them."
I have at no time, questioned Nissan's sale. Nor am I going to hunt for them, since I don't CARE NOR, at any time have mentioned their number's since my point HAS NEVER BEEN, about number's, since ALL I posted recently, dealt with the awards the F-150 has received. The number's situation was something someone else had mentioned.
Yes, for 2000-2001, the Jan-March number's were higher than for this Jan-March of 2004. The factories were running overtime those years, this year with only 2 fully ramped going overtime on 3 shifts, they can't make as much. But for those years, what's the point when the rest of the year's, the number's weren't as strong throughout.
"Johnny has cut his price (can you say rebates - I thought so!) so his profits end up being less and he isn't enjoying them as much as his investment has increased (business 101) so his return is less."
Johnny's kites are looking much better overall and he's offering more decorations with them....So the higher end (more profittable) kites are selling more so than the lower end kites. Johnny has special sales on the cheaper kites, but since the high end kites are making 70-80% of it's new sales, Johnny is enjoying a much better bottom line, than the previous year, where the higher end kites made only 43-50% of overall sales.
Since Johnny's new kites have been phased in, he has been able to work with supplier to lower the cost of producing his kites. So he's now enjoying even more of a profit, to offset any rebates he might be placing on his kites.
#588 of 1169 If the F-150 isn't the gold standard in trucks.....
Apr 11, 2004 (8:42 pm)
Then why has Toyota tried twice to copy it almost exactly, with the Tundra, and why has Nissan used it as the "truck to beat" when designing the Titan? Now, maybe the Titan has eclipsed it in some ways, maybe not. Certainly, they have come closer than anybody else. No question it will have an impact. No question, people will buy it. The Dr. across the street bought one, traded in his F-250 on it. He's not sure he made the right move though.....it has a few design quirks he's not thrilled with - other things he likes a lot. Time will tell.