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You are in the Pickups - Archived Discussions
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Nissan Titan, Ford F-150, Exterior, Engine, Interior, Transmission, Truck
#158 of 1169 Ant - for you....
Dec 19, 2003 (1:47 pm)
This post is a little long but it is a mini review form edmunds staffers...pretty much says what many people are saying - awards aside -...it even mentions that dirty "anemic" word!! Here it is:
"By Brian Moody
Date posted: 12-18-2003
Road Test Editor Erin Riches says:
Anyone who settles into the driver seat of an F-150 SuperCab on a dealership lot will be hard-pressed to find fault with it. The cab is roomy, the seats are comfortable, there are six cupholders in the front seat alone (along with plenty of storage areas) and the grain patterns on most of the hard plastics match. Although I still prefer the accommodations in the Dodge Ram, it doesn't get much better than this in full-size trucks.
Unfortunately, these good feelings are apt to go out the window when you actually start up the F-150. The 5.4-liter V8 has never felt weaker — regardless of the tow ratings Ford is claiming — and offers nowhere near the torque of Dodge's Hemi, GM's 5.3-liter or Nissan's 5.6-liter. I was the only one in our otherwise empty test truck, and acceleration felt no more than adequate for merging and passing on the highway, or climbing modest hills in the canyons. Moreover, pressing the accelerator pedal didn't yield the authoritative grunts and growls you usually get with a V8. If you've already made the decision to give up gas mileage to get some decent hauling power, you want to feel the sacrifice is worth it — and Ford's 5.4-liter wouldn't do that for me.
Besides that, I wasn't all that impressed with our test truck's ride and handling characteristics. Sure, the F-150 was better behaved than any Silverado or Sierra, but neither the suspension nor steering provided the level of control and feedback you get with the Ram or Titan. There's no question that full-size pickups are still some of the least domesticated vehicles on the road, but Dodge, Nissan and Toyota have raised expectations for their manners on pavement.
If the F-150 manages to hold onto the best-selling pickup crown in 2004, it won't be because Ford built the best full-size pickup. Serious truck buyers would be ill-advised to buy this truck on name value alone.
Photo Editor Scott Jacobs says:
The F-150 has a lot of Ford's hopes pinned to it. It's the longest-running, best-selling Ford vehicle out there. So basically, this is the company's bread-and-butter vehicle. Having said that, I had a lot of expectations going into my drive around town in the F-150.
I was first impressed by the styling of both the exterior and interior. It has chiseled features that are a touch plain, but I think for a work truck like this they work very well. The interior has a very symmetrical layout that I found especially pleasing in comparison to its competitors. In my opinion, the interior for GM trucks are ugly, the Dodge trucks are way too basic in design while Toyota's are a mix between the GM and Dodge. This Ford, like its competitors, has a ton of semi cheap-looking plastic covering the interior which really detracts from its aesthetic appearance. I do, however, have to give it kudos for the matching grain which downplayed that cheap plastic look a little bit.
I couldn't believe I was driving a truck with a 5.4-liter V8. After one good pedal stomp on the freeway, I was stunned. Where had all that power gone to? It really got me thinking that in comparison to its competition, it's going to feel pretty pathetic, and especially so for the extra money a V8 would command. Trucks hang their hat on towing capacity and Ford claims a 1,600-pound advantage over the Chevrolet Silverado. I really hope that is the case and the anemic power feeling is deceiving.
I'm a little worried for Ford. The F-150 is nice, but it doesn't seem like it's a huge improvement over the previous generation. Looks can only carry you so far. With so many hopes pinned to it, I fear it may not deliver as expected."
Dec 19, 2003 (5:24 pm)
So what's the issue, that's their impression, nothing wrong with that, is there ?
Dec 19, 2003 (6:16 pm)
They get considerably stronger with age. When brand new, they do feel a little asthmatic, but the power for towing is there.
Now, any of you have a Chevy truck with a 454 in it? It's the most disappointing truck on earth off the line! You expect a mill that large to just haul ass off the line, and it's dreadfully slow! Yet, put your trailer behind it, and watch the smoke it will make!
Power bands and availability of torque are not always what you expect. I would give any truck a thorough test drive to see how it performs before buying.
Dec 19, 2003 (7:40 pm)
Actually from other reports I've read the Triton seems soft for a few hundred break-in miles, but owner's have stated it improves after that. Not to mention that the smoothness and the quietness of the cabin, do quite a bit for that perception in thinking it's powerless.
I have a friends Saturn L300 V6, which seems quite fast because of it's quick snappy kick-downs, and major torque steer in the steering wheel. Yet I'm fully that it's 0-60 is 7.2-7.5sec, while I have another friend with a new Accord V6, and while I know it's acceleration is much quicker than the Saturn, it feels slower because it's quieter, smoother and more isolated than the Saturn.
But I find ironic about one of their comments about the interior quality. It just seems every publication praises the quality interior, yet they found it to be plasticky. So already that sets off some red-flags that there might be a hidden agenda on their opinions.
But overall this isn't to distract that the majority of the media loves the new F-150 and a few outlets have honored it with "Of the Year" awards, therefore these peoples assessment seem to be of the minority
#162 of 1169 give me a break!!
Dec 19, 2003 (9:31 pm)
If they praise the F150 they are right...if they don't, they are in the minority and must be wrong? I have yet to find any media who has fully tested the F150 that says it has power! ANT...you post in the F150 group and you are a self professed expert there. Not only that, everybody there thinks you have tons of knowledge about engines. You go into great detail to say why the 3 valve per cylinder is better than four and how it was going to give way more power in low RPM's than the 4 valve set-up...oh ya, it was going to be cheaper too!
I have yet to see your proclomations come true. Do you think everybody who has tested it has only used a vehicle with less than a couple of hundred miles? I think it is time you smelled the coffee and realized that with all the extra weight and an engine that is good but not great, it is just ordinary.
As to the interior - BS - many media people, and many Ford people on your F150 board, have also commented about the cheapness of some of the F150 interiors (they have 5 of them). Does cheezy looking woodgrain ring a bell?
There are also many people who say the interior of the F150 is class leading...that tells me it is subjective (and bound to be influenced by a 100 mil advertising campaign) so you either like it or you don't; it is not what a great truck should be judged on.
The Titan has only been out for less than 3 weeks...most of the "tests" have been done on pre-production models...that should say something.
The F150 is a good truck - maybe great compared to the old F150 - but others have stepped up to the plate and surpassed it - The huge advertising campaign of Ford just hasn't let a lot of people know it. Ford will still sell a ton of the F150s, don't worry, your job is safe, Nissan doesn't even have the capability to manufacture enough Titans to even put a dent in the F150 sales - and there are enough "Ford is God" people out there to keep it there. Just don't delude yourself that this is a great truck.
it is a good truck with a very nice interior (at least on some models) that is a step up from the old F150, but not a class leader by any shot!
#163 of 1169 A last comment
Dec 19, 2003 (9:35 pm)
Watch out for Toyota! How many shots at the minivan market; or the car market for that matter, did it take until they got the best product? Watch out for the Tundra.
#164 of 1169 Watch Out for Toyota?
Dec 19, 2003 (10:35 pm)
Speaking of cheap woodgrain dash. Come have a look at my '03 Corolla. It boasts a 26 MPG avg (city) compared to the 32 est. And it would be faster RIDING in an F150. The first time it rained the windshield leaked.
My '95 Tacoma was recalled for a head gasket problem that was supposed to have been fixed for the earlier 3.0 V6.
My '01 GMC 2500 HD had the Allison transmission completely replaced TWICE in the first 6 mo.
The wife's '98 mustang has 50k mi and no problems.
Toyota quality? Can't prove it by me.
#165 of 1169 Watch Out for Toyota? by kg11
Dec 20, 2003 (5:43 am)
SO you are trying to sat Ford has better quality than Toyota and GM? Been smoking something lately? Mr. Ford himself proclaimed that Ford had a quality problem. As to your problems, no vehicle is perfect, you always have a chance of problems. The thing is, you have much LESS chance of problems with a Toyota than a Ford for many reasons. This isn't just me saying this - the majority of automotive media say the same thing.
By the way - GM has improved much more than Ford.
#166 of 1169 I Quit Smoking in the '70s
Dec 20, 2003 (7:18 am)
As you said,"no vehicle is perfect" and I agree that you have less chance for problems with Toy. I've bought 2 in the last 8 years.
BUT; Toyota is certianly not trouble free. First year Tundras had brake problems. Several models of thier V6 had head gasket problems. Several of thier engines have sludge problems.
I'm sure there are a lot of quality Toyotas out there but very few "best in class" claims other than quality which is clearly less than perfect. My Tacoma was GREAT off road but it's 1800lb gross payload was exagerated. The springs bottomed out with 1200 lb of sand in the bed. (My GMC has 4-5 inches of spring travel at 500 lb OVER the 3300 lb rated payload.) The tow rating was 5000 lb With the Taco but it struggled with my 3800 lb boat. I never considered towing in the mountians.
People who think thier Tundras are work trucks don't actually work them. Car-like ride? You bet! 1800 lb payload? You'd better keep it against the cab and take it easy on the brakes. I agree the Tundra is a great truck for most peoples going to Home Depot needs but class leading it's not.
The new F150 has an optional payload of 3000lb. IF the next generation Tundra offers higher tow / hual ratings they'll need to stretch the wheelbase to the same as a real full sized truck.(like Titan)
#167 of 1169 F150
Dec 20, 2003 (8:40 am)
I drove one for a day, but I was disappointed by the power from a 300HP engine. If you're going to make the sacrifice of poor gas mileage, then I feel you should have snappy acceleration available if you want to use it. The acceleration was just barely adequate with no weight in the bed. I have a hard time believing that it really had 300HP. Has anyone dynoed it? This is not a race car, but it feels slow even when compared to other full sized pickups.
I also would want side curtain airbags for an extra margin of safety especially with the risk of roll over in a truck. Maybe in a couple years when they have discontinued the Heritage model and have all factories building the new F-150, Ford will make side curtain airbags available and find the missing horsepower. The only other thing I didn't like was the cheesy super-fake plastic wood trim in the Lariat.
I'll check back when the 2006 models come out.