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You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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BMW X5, SUV
#918 of 2455 Re: 08 X5 4.8 in So Cal [bmlexus]
Aug 06, 2008 (5:08 pm)
I ran the gamut -
A4 Avants (wagon) - 2.0T, S4 -- the 2.0T is a nice little car, but underpowered. The S4 version is very fast for a wagon. Audi's are nice cars, with great interiors, but the handling is not as good as BMWs in my opinion. The lease packages are terrible too. My local Audi dealer quoted me around 800/mo. with tax, no money down, on a MSRP 41,000 A4 Avant and over 1000/mo on an S4 Avant with a 57,000 MSRP. The residuals for 3 yr leases are in the low 40%s, which are terrible.
Lexus RX350/400h -- decent power, safe, nice interiors and features. Oh, did I mention I almost put the car into a tree because I fell asleep while driving them? Boring, safe, smooth, soft brakes, decent pickup in the hybrid because of increased torque. With good options they become pricey - over 52,000 for a 400h with decent options.
New FX35 - this car was very fun. A well equipped (Nav with traffic, etc) one goes for like 48,000 MSRP with decent mileage. These have an upgraded version of that great Nissan 6 cyl engine. Handling was decent. So was the braking. Acceleration was very impressive, as expected. Interior is gaudy but improved. Problem is, with leasing the way it is for many car brands, I was not going to see a huge improvement in monthly payments, and if I can get an X5 for 870/mos, why would I get an Infiniti for $670 or whatever it would have been?
X6 - I test drove the 35i, which is the TT engine similar to what is used in the 535 and 335. It was pretty fast and handled ok. I can't really figure out what this car is all about. I like the way it looks, but it had no practical application to me. Seats 4, like a 3 series coupe, with decent storage space. The lease packages are terrible. A 68,000 MSRP X6 will run you close to 1200/mos on a lease payment.
Q7 -- Audi is pushing very hard to send these out the door, but they cannot compete with BMW. I tested both versions. You have to get the 4.2. The 3.6 felt very sluggish. All of them have way more body sway then the X5. The interiors are great and super luxurious. But, after hours of haggling, the best I could get out of them was 930/mos on a 66,000 MSRP car. Forget it.
Highlander Hybrid - terrible handling. Cheap wood effects and cheap interiors. Surprisingly more expensive after options than you would imagine.
I also looked at, yes, a Prius, 535i (I used to have a 2004 530i, so there was no question I would love it, but I wanted more room), Chevy Tahoes are nice, but way too big for me.
#919 of 2455 Re: 08 X5 4.8 in So Cal [wtf_123]
Aug 06, 2008 (7:36 pm)
So...is $2,000 under invoice, plus .9% financing a reasonable target for a new X5? In the south I am finding invoice +$500. Should the the deal be worse if you request the vehicle to be built?
Has anyone noticed that the used car market for 07 X5's makes no sense relative to the great deals on the 2008s. In the end you save no money after financing, get a car with less warranty/maintenance, and have a lower residual. What gives?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!
#920 of 2455 Re: 08 X5 4.8 in So Cal [ozam]
Aug 07, 2008 (4:22 am)
Price depends a little on the relationship with your dealer. BMW dealers aren't used to getting hammered over price. I used to think 1 - 1.5K over invoice was fair for a BMW. With the premium package deal (2500) that moved my target to 1 - 1.5K under invoice. This is with a dealer that I plan to do other business with.
Best bet is to talk in with the invoice price and remind the dealer of the premium package discount. Worked great for me.
The 2007 used market hasn't caught up because the dealers are going to take it in the shorts and are hoping for a sucker to pay their price. The bottom dropped out so quickly that dealers were left holding SUVs they overpaid for.
#921 of 2455 Re: 08 X5 4.8 in So Cal [hipreck]
Aug 07, 2008 (9:12 am)
Exactly my thoughts.....given the current market, buying an SUV is a very dicey propostion. Who knows what their values will be 5 years from now. One indication is that lease residuals are in the low 30% range. One almost has to be super aggresive with the dealer just to keep their cost as low as possible on the front end knowing the values will be very low a few years from now.
#922 of 2455 Re: 08 X5 4.8 in So Cal [wtf_123]
Aug 07, 2008 (4:52 pm)
How many miles per yr. did you get on the X5 lease. I couldn't opt for the lease 'cause I will probably be doing between 12K-15K miles per yr.
#923 of 2455 Re: 08 X5 4.8 in So Cal [bond007jb]
Aug 09, 2008 (10:27 am)
Are you talking about my lease? 3 years, 36,000 miles.
Also, I agree with the prior posters -- used to be you went in, SUV or not, and tried to give the dealer 3% over the invoice. With the premium package credit, you can legitimately offer over $1K below invoice or more and still get a decent deal.
Another thing I noticed is that versus its competition, BMW is at least trying to push decent deals. The Audi dealerships I dealt with "said" they wanted to sell the Q7s and were pushing big dollars off MSRP (from 66,000 to 60,000), but a 43% residual after 3 years versus the 57% for the X5 makes that a terrible deal. Case in point, Audi could not even get below 940/mos including tax for the MSRP 66,000 Q7, which, mind you, was not as well loaded as the 68,000 MSRP X5 I got, nor can it compare in driving quality, etc. Also, don't forget the better maintenance package you get with a BMW.
#924 of 2455 Re: 08 X5 4.8 in So Cal [wtf_123]
Aug 09, 2008 (10:36 am)
BTW, to go to 15,000 miles a year versus 12,000 is only another 30 or 40 bucks a month. I believe BMW charges 15 cents a mile when signing the lease, right? If you go over, they charge you 20 cents a mile.
Also, you can "buy" miles over your lease within a certain period before the lease ends for 15 cents versus the 20 cents they would charge if you go over and return the car.
For comparison, and I did not verify this, Audi claimed their overage for mileage is 25 cents.
#925 of 2455 Over Mileage Charges
Aug 09, 2008 (11:55 am)
From BMWFS, extra miles above 15K can be purchased at $.15 per mile. It is $.25 per mile if you turn the car in and go over at the end of the lease. You can purchase extra miles during your lease for $.16 per mile.
BMW's high residuals make them very attractive to lease vs. the competition, especially at or below invoice pricing.
I've read somewhere that BMW has been getting killed with off lease cars that aren't worth as much as their "pumped up" residuals and sometime soon may not offer such generous residuals for leases.
#926 of 2455 Re: Over Mileage Charges [nyccarguy]
Aug 09, 2008 (1:25 pm)
That is true. BMWs always have been blessed by the industry with the highest residuals of any large scale manufacturer. However, BMWFS has been subsidizing (inflating) the residuals to make the leases more attractive. Audi did this for a period of time 2003-2006, but once the cars were turned in, they were stuck with a hefty bill. They have stopped that practice. Audi feels they can improve their sales with low APR financing, as well as more attractive products
#927 of 2455 Re: 08 X5 4.8 in So Cal [wtf_123]
Aug 09, 2008 (8:33 pm)
I find your post really helpful, if you please can share the name of the dealer and the sales person you worked with. I 'm getting probably 30 dollars less of what you are paying but for a 3.0 wich is a whole different car. I 'd apreciate the time you take to reply to this message. Jesus