Last post on Jun 13, 2013 at 8:23 AM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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BMW X5, SUV
#2379 of 2455 Re: About to pull the trigger 2012 X5 Premium [rleebb00]
Nov 30, 2012 (11:57 am)
Your assumption is correct, I meant 20% off the negotiated price that you would actually pay for a new 2013, is what I would peg the fair discount for a 2012 with 18k miles.
As far as the diesel vs. gas decision, again that's a personal choice and please don't take my "opinion" as attempting to dictate one is right and the other wrong. That said, almost all of the 8 "problems" contained in the link you posted look like they came from 1982 not 2012:
(1) Diesel engines, because they have much higher compression ratios (20:1 for a typical diesel vs. 8:1 for a typical gasoline engine), tend to be heavier than an equivalent gasoline engine. True, but they are also made out of cast iron and tend to last longer than gas engines (see advantages) Plus, we are already talking about a 5,000+lb SUV, not a 2,900 lb sports car. The 200-250 pound difference in engine and vehicle weight is not a significant disadvantage. It would be in a Porsche Cayman, not a Porsche Cayenne.
(2) Diesel engines also tend to be more expensive. Not with the current $4,500 eco-credit. And even without the eco credit, I would estimate the fuel savings for us in 50,000 miles to be $3,000+/-. We plan to keep it 100k+. You can do your own math based upon your driving habits and fuel prices in your area.
(3) Diesel engines, because of the weight and compression ratio, tend to have lower maximum RPM ranges than gasoline engines. This makes diesel engines high torque rather than high horsepower, and that tends to make diesel cars slow in terms of acceleration. The X5 3.5i has 300hp/300 ft/lbs. The X5d has 265 hp/425 ft.lbs. I'll take that trade off all day long in a SUV. The X5d goes from 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, at most about 0.5 second slower than the 3.5i. Versus 8.6 for my former 1984 Toyota Supra. And at least a second faster than the 2009 X5 3.0i. The highway passing power is X5 4.8i competitive. PLENTY QUICK for an SUV.
(4) Diesel engines must be fuel injected, and in the past fuel injection was expensive and less reliable. DUH - Say what?? Maybe in 1970, but I don't think you can find a new non fuel injected (carburator) car in the first or second world. And if you did, push it off a cliff. Everything is fuel injected today. Even my sneakers.
(5) Diesel engines tend to produce more smoke and "smell funny." Not any more. Except for my sneakers.
(6) Diesel engines are harder to start in cold weather and if they contain glow plugs, diesel engines can require you to wait before starting the engine so the glow plugs can heat up. Not any more, no glow plugs in any vehicles I looked at (Audi, VW, Mercedes, BMW)
(7) Diesel engines are much noisier and tend to vibrate. Not any more. I can (barely) tell from the noise that I'm in diesel accelerating around town, but on highway cruising, the X5d is quieter than our old MDX, especially given that it's abundant torque means that it doesn't need to downshift as much on moderate to steep grades.
(8) Diesel fuel is less readily available than gasoline. Not a problem in our area. Made less so by the extended range - 600+ miles on the highway.
Good luck whatever way you go, but give yourself a test drive or two. You might feel differently than me and stick with the X5 3.5i, - but at least with a test drive you can form your own opinion, not rely on an article that looks like it was plucked out of a 1980 issue of Motor Trend.
#2380 of 2455 Extra Padding?
Dec 03, 2012 (11:55 pm)
I would like some help. I'm in the process of negotiating for a 2013 X5 3.5i Premium. The numbers the dealer is using aren't matching what I see on the Edmunds True Market Value section. I would be ordering the car with the Convenience, Luxury Seating, Premium Sound, and Technology packages, plus running boards and BMW apps. They told me I could have the car for $500 over invoice. To me, that means the invoice price on the car, plus the invoice prices on the packages, plus $500. Is that the correct way of figuring it?
According to the Edmunds TMV, that should total $59,780 (including the $895 destination fee). If I add $500 to that, it totals $60,280. They are quoting me $61,090. Am I missing something, or are they adding almost $1000 somewhere? The MSRP after packages/options is $65,270. Is there anywhere else I can go to view what the invoice price on this car would be?
Thanks in advance for your help!
#2381 of 2455 2013 X5 Diesel - HELP
Dec 04, 2012 (1:11 am)
Newbie here... sorry for any redundancies. I currently own a 2011 x5 diesel (white exterior, oyster interior, premium package + running boards).
I am interested in purchasing a new x5 diesel due to the savings being offered. $4,500 eco credit, $1,500 holiday credit, and $750 loyalty credit. I drive roughly 15-17k miles a year, so a lease is probably not my best option. The x5 I just built online came out to be $64,645 with the Sport Activity Package, Premium Package, and running boards. Subtract the discounts ($6,750) and I have $57,895 which should include destination and handeling.
Do I have any wiggle room? I'm not sure what the market up is online? Fortunately/unfortunately my 2011 was a company car and this time it is on me, so the first go round I didn't pay as much attention to the details because it was being covered. Any other cost I should be aware of?
Lastly, my 2011 has 29,000 miles. I'm hoping to sell privately for $44-45k. BMW in my hometown says $40-41k is the best they could do. Any thoughts?
#2382 of 2455 Re: 2013 X5 Diesel - HELP [tarheel0303]
Dec 04, 2012 (4:03 am)
I answered you in the X5 lease forum.
#2383 of 2455 Re: Extra Padding? [toy4me]
Dec 04, 2012 (4:07 am)
Have your dealer show you their exact invoice. They are probably adding a few items that Edmunds does not include, which are legitimate costs up to a point. MACO and some regional fees added about $300-400 to the invoice cost on our vehicle. But $810 difference sounds like they are throwing in some other items. Take your Edmunds print out to them and have them put theirs side by side. My dealer sales manager did that and it made for a reasonable compromise.
#2384 of 2455 Re: Extra Padding? [habitat1]
Dec 06, 2012 (12:18 am)
Thank you for your reply. I spoke with the manager I'm dealing with and he explained that the pricing on Edmunds has not been updated with BMW's new pricing on their Convenience Package. Edmunds has it retailing at $3600, but BMW now has it on their website as $3875. The difference is that now they include the soft close doors, where they did not before. The invoice fee on that is now $3525, instead of Edmunds price of $3275. You were right about the MACO fee, which is BMW's advertising fee of $380 and he said is added to every car. The new price is $60410 + $500 = $60,910 as the final price (of $500 over invoice). I think it's a pretty good deal. Anyone have a different opinion?
Another dealer quoted me $300 over, but when I asked for a full quote their numbers are showing more than $500 over invoice. They also tried to stick in an extra $200 ($925) in the "bank fee" for a lease, which the BMW site has as $725. I know they're trying to make money, but I don't like being played or lied to!
#2385 of 2455 Re: Need help [habitat1]
Dec 07, 2012 (1:38 am)
Hi habitat1, thanks for your consistent contribution to this forum and I learnt a lot from your posts. I am in the market for a X5D and had been trying to get my local dealers offering me the price I arrive at using your formula but had little success. The lowest offer so far was still 2800 above that price and I didn't even bother negotiating with that guy...I will of course continue to get quotes from other dealers in the area (which may take a while because some dealers won't give any meaningful numbers in e-mails or over the phone), but any other suggestions/tips on negotiating?
Thanks a bunch.
#2386 of 2455 Re: Need help [lma9]
Dec 07, 2012 (3:56 am)
Where are you located?
#2387 of 2455 Re: Extra Padding? [toy4me]
Dec 07, 2012 (10:30 am)
If you are serious about buying an X5d, contact Nick Alexander BMW in Southern California. I bought my 2012 there almost 1 year ago and they gave it to me at over $10k below MSRP of $66,295 for a total out the door price of $61000!!!! Their pricing was unbeatable so if they can even get close to that kind of deal again it would be worth talking to them even if you have to ship across country for another $1200, so long as you save at least $1500 doing so it is worth the minor hassle... Call and speak directly with a sales manager or fleet sales/internet sales, DO NOT TALK TO A REGULAR SALESMAN, that usually amounts to time wasted...
#2388 of 2455 X5D price in DC area
Dec 07, 2012 (11:19 pm)
I was just priced a 2013 X5D for $54k OTD (including the holiday credit, eco credit, and USAA credit) to order and pick up at the Performance Center. The order includes:
luxury seating package
Seems like a good deal. What do you think?
Any packages/options I might need?