Last post on Mar 06, 2013 at 2:48 PM
You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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BMW X5, SUV
#2376 of 2444 Re: Deal Review [ad42197]
Nov 30, 2012 (3:24 am)
In my area (DC Metro) as of a couple of weeks ago, BMW of Silver Spring still had 1-2 order slots left for the 2012 X5d. By now they may have an allocation of slots for a 2013 X5d. Check around your area.
And if you are remotely within driving distance of the Spartanburg Performance Delivery Center, look into that option for ordering the car from your local dealer, flying down and picking it up there. BMW puts you (and spouse/other) for a night at the Marriott the night before, you get a morning at the track covering skidpad, ABS braking and actual mini-formula one track laps, all at the wheel of their cars, plus the off-road course that will show you thngs on the X5 like hill-hold and other features you would never use in that way on your own. Followed by lunch, factory tour, BMW museum tour. Take 1-2 days to drive home. It's free, and the ONLY way I will ever buy another BMW, period.
#2377 of 2444 Re: About to pull the trigger 2012 X5 Premium [rleebb00]
Nov 30, 2012 (3:43 am)
Personally, I don't think even $46k for a 2012 with 18,000 miles compared to a brand new 2013 for $54.5k is a good deal. I don't care what the "blue book" or anything else says, I think you should be getting 20% off the price of a new car. That's consistent with 1st year depreciation and 18k miles. That would put my target price at $43.5k.
Also - and I respect that everyone has their own opinions - but I just can't see the value of buying an X5 3.5i today over a X5 3.5d with the $4,500 eco credit. With the options you specified, a new X5d would be $52-53k after discounts and incentives or $1,500+ LESS than the X5 3.5i. I was just at a Porsche dealer last night and they told me their Cayenne diesels are flying off the lot at an MSRP that is $2-3k MORE than their gas model. We are getting real world 40% better fuel economy than our old MDX and the power of the diesel on the highway rivals the previous X5 V8. If you have considered it and rejected it for some reason, so be it. But it's a much better value IMO, considering lower up front price, much better fuel economy (well in excess of the current diesel price premium over premium gas) and likely higher future resale value. I may not quite be ready for a diesel 911 or Cayman S, but I will never own a gas SUV again in my lifetime.
#2378 of 2444 Re: About to pull the trigger 2012 X5 Premium [habitat1]
Nov 30, 2012 (6:33 am)
Thanks Habitat. Although I doubt they'll go that low I'm definitely going to shoot much lower than the $47588. Also, when you say 20% off a new car are you referring to the discount off of the negotiated price or MSRP? The MSRP on the new models I looked at were $61K so if I was going off of that the used car would be a good deal. I'm assuming you do mean negotiated.
I'm no expert but did some research on the gas vs diesel debate when I began my search. One of the disadvantages was the higher initial cost of a diesel, but that is obviously addressed with the eco credit and savings on efficiency. If it weren't for the eco credit it definitely wouldn't be worth it to me as positive savings doesn't seem to start hitting for almost 4-5 years and I've been averaging 3 year ownership. The items that concern can be found here: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question399.htm. Although this is only one source I've seen these disadvantages on several sites. Given the information you've provided and the opinions of others I will take extra time to think about the deal on the used car and possibly owning a diesel. Thanks again.
#2379 of 2444 Re: About to pull the trigger 2012 X5 Premium [rleebb00]
Nov 30, 2012 (11:57 am)
Your assumption is correct, I meant 20% off the negotiated price that you would actually pay for a new 2013, is what I would peg the fair discount for a 2012 with 18k miles.
As far as the diesel vs. gas decision, again that's a personal choice and please don't take my "opinion" as attempting to dictate one is right and the other wrong. That said, almost all of the 8 "problems" contained in the link you posted look like they came from 1982 not 2012:
(1) Diesel engines, because they have much higher compression ratios (20:1 for a typical diesel vs. 8:1 for a typical gasoline engine), tend to be heavier than an equivalent gasoline engine. True, but they are also made out of cast iron and tend to last longer than gas engines (see advantages) Plus, we are already talking about a 5,000+lb SUV, not a 2,900 lb sports car. The 200-250 pound difference in engine and vehicle weight is not a significant disadvantage. It would be in a Porsche Cayman, not a Porsche Cayenne.
(2) Diesel engines also tend to be more expensive. Not with the current $4,500 eco-credit. And even without the eco credit, I would estimate the fuel savings for us in 50,000 miles to be $3,000+/-. We plan to keep it 100k+. You can do your own math based upon your driving habits and fuel prices in your area.
(3) Diesel engines, because of the weight and compression ratio, tend to have lower maximum RPM ranges than gasoline engines. This makes diesel engines high torque rather than high horsepower, and that tends to make diesel cars slow in terms of acceleration. The X5 3.5i has 300hp/300 ft/lbs. The X5d has 265 hp/425 ft.lbs. I'll take that trade off all day long in a SUV. The X5d goes from 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, at most about 0.5 second slower than the 3.5i. Versus 8.6 for my former 1984 Toyota Supra. And at least a second faster than the 2009 X5 3.0i. The highway passing power is X5 4.8i competitive. PLENTY QUICK for an SUV.
(4) Diesel engines must be fuel injected, and in the past fuel injection was expensive and less reliable. DUH - Say what?? Maybe in 1970, but I don't think you can find a new non fuel injected (carburator) car in the first or second world. And if you did, push it off a cliff. Everything is fuel injected today. Even my sneakers.
(5) Diesel engines tend to produce more smoke and "smell funny." Not any more. Except for my sneakers.
(6) Diesel engines are harder to start in cold weather and if they contain glow plugs, diesel engines can require you to wait before starting the engine so the glow plugs can heat up. Not any more, no glow plugs in any vehicles I looked at (Audi, VW, Mercedes, BMW)
(7) Diesel engines are much noisier and tend to vibrate. Not any more. I can (barely) tell from the noise that I'm in diesel accelerating around town, but on highway cruising, the X5d is quieter than our old MDX, especially given that it's abundant torque means that it doesn't need to downshift as much on moderate to steep grades.
(8) Diesel fuel is less readily available than gasoline. Not a problem in our area. Made less so by the extended range - 600+ miles on the highway.
Good luck whatever way you go, but give yourself a test drive or two. You might feel differently than me and stick with the X5 3.5i, - but at least with a test drive you can form your own opinion, not rely on an article that looks like it was plucked out of a 1980 issue of Motor Trend.
#2380 of 2444 Extra Padding?
Dec 03, 2012 (11:55 pm)
I would like some help. I'm in the process of negotiating for a 2013 X5 3.5i Premium. The numbers the dealer is using aren't matching what I see on the Edmunds True Market Value section. I would be ordering the car with the Convenience, Luxury Seating, Premium Sound, and Technology packages, plus running boards and BMW apps. They told me I could have the car for $500 over invoice. To me, that means the invoice price on the car, plus the invoice prices on the packages, plus $500. Is that the correct way of figuring it?
According to the Edmunds TMV, that should total $59,780 (including the $895 destination fee). If I add $500 to that, it totals $60,280. They are quoting me $61,090. Am I missing something, or are they adding almost $1000 somewhere? The MSRP after packages/options is $65,270. Is there anywhere else I can go to view what the invoice price on this car would be?
Thanks in advance for your help!
#2381 of 2444 2013 X5 Diesel - HELP
Dec 04, 2012 (1:11 am)
Newbie here... sorry for any redundancies. I currently own a 2011 x5 diesel (white exterior, oyster interior, premium package + running boards).
I am interested in purchasing a new x5 diesel due to the savings being offered. $4,500 eco credit, $1,500 holiday credit, and $750 loyalty credit. I drive roughly 15-17k miles a year, so a lease is probably not my best option. The x5 I just built online came out to be $64,645 with the Sport Activity Package, Premium Package, and running boards. Subtract the discounts ($6,750) and I have $57,895 which should include destination and handeling.
Do I have any wiggle room? I'm not sure what the market up is online? Fortunately/unfortunately my 2011 was a company car and this time it is on me, so the first go round I didn't pay as much attention to the details because it was being covered. Any other cost I should be aware of?
Lastly, my 2011 has 29,000 miles. I'm hoping to sell privately for $44-45k. BMW in my hometown says $40-41k is the best they could do. Any thoughts?
#2382 of 2444 Re: 2013 X5 Diesel - HELP [tarheel0303]
Dec 04, 2012 (4:03 am)
I answered you in the X5 lease forum.
#2383 of 2444 Re: Extra Padding? [toy4me]
Dec 04, 2012 (4:07 am)
Have your dealer show you their exact invoice. They are probably adding a few items that Edmunds does not include, which are legitimate costs up to a point. MACO and some regional fees added about $300-400 to the invoice cost on our vehicle. But $810 difference sounds like they are throwing in some other items. Take your Edmunds print out to them and have them put theirs side by side. My dealer sales manager did that and it made for a reasonable compromise.
#2384 of 2444 Re: Extra Padding? [habitat1]
Dec 06, 2012 (12:18 am)
Thank you for your reply. I spoke with the manager I'm dealing with and he explained that the pricing on Edmunds has not been updated with BMW's new pricing on their Convenience Package. Edmunds has it retailing at $3600, but BMW now has it on their website as $3875. The difference is that now they include the soft close doors, where they did not before. The invoice fee on that is now $3525, instead of Edmunds price of $3275. You were right about the MACO fee, which is BMW's advertising fee of $380 and he said is added to every car. The new price is $60410 + $500 = $60,910 as the final price (of $500 over invoice). I think it's a pretty good deal. Anyone have a different opinion?
Another dealer quoted me $300 over, but when I asked for a full quote their numbers are showing more than $500 over invoice. They also tried to stick in an extra $200 ($925) in the "bank fee" for a lease, which the BMW site has as $725. I know they're trying to make money, but I don't like being played or lied to!
#2385 of 2444 Re: Need help [habitat1]
Dec 07, 2012 (1:38 am)
Hi habitat1, thanks for your consistent contribution to this forum and I learnt a lot from your posts. I am in the market for a X5D and had been trying to get my local dealers offering me the price I arrive at using your formula but had little success. The lowest offer so far was still 2800 above that price and I didn't even bother negotiating with that guy...I will of course continue to get quotes from other dealers in the area (which may take a while because some dealers won't give any meaningful numbers in e-mails or over the phone), but any other suggestions/tips on negotiating?
Thanks a bunch.