Last post on Dec 13, 2012 at 1:04 PM
You are in the Toyota Prius
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Prius, Hybrid Cars
#6729 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [kdhspyder]
Apr 05, 2006 (11:43 am)
Why are the Prius sales are down 22% for March? No problem for Toyota to keep the supply of big trucks and SUVs coming. Green company, bah humbug....
The Japanese automaker said its sales were up 7 percent in March compared with a year earlier, driven by a 15 percent jump in truck and SUV sales. But Prius sales were down 22 percent as production problems slowed down Toyota's effort to supply the high-mileage gas-electric vehicles to its U.S. dealers.
#6730 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [gagrice]
Apr 05, 2006 (12:16 pm)
Tundra -8.9% m/m
Sequoia -21.8% m/m
Highlander -12.8% m/m
Some products are up and some are down for different reasons. Besides how are you going to buy a hybrid Tundra or diesel Tundra when they come out if Toyota isn't in the truck business.
#6731 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [gagrice]
Apr 05, 2006 (1:26 pm)
"Prius sales are down 22% for March?"
Because there are better hybrid alternatives now. You think it is bad now, just wait until the government props go away.
... And people are finally beginning realize the payback period on gas savings is very, very, very long!
Hey JOHN1701A don't fret your gas mileage will begin paying you back in just a couple of more years
#6732 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [midnightcowboy]
Apr 05, 2006 (2:08 pm)
You know, I just don't get it. People think nothing of dropping $40K on a SUV or luxury sedan. Yet, when it comes to the Prius, people are doing cost - benefit analyses and breakeven analyses. Are the buyers of the big bucks vehicles doing those analyses? Are other people pointing out to those buyers that they'll never break even on the difference between the $40K SUV that they bought instead of, say, a $25K or $30K minivan? No. So why in the $%#* is a different standard being applied to the Prius? People buy for different reasons. Some buy because they want that exact vehicle and don't worry about the price. Some buy purely on price and don't care what make it is as long as it has the features and size they are looking for. Each buyer has his or her reasons.
Now, regarding the Prius in particular and hybrids in general, that whole cost - benefit analysis is likely to change dramatically for two reasons. One, the price of gas is going to keep climbing until the next major global recession hits. I anticipate that gas will be right around $3 for the summer. The second factor is that it is inevitable that in the next few years we (the US) are going to have to finally confront global warming and that we are going to be faced with carbon taxes and a mandated reduction in CO2 emissions. California has already passed new limitations that are due to go into effect with model year 2009. The automakers are desperately fighting California in the courts. If California wins, all the money the manufacturers spent on legal costs is wasted when it could better have been spent on R&D.
#6733 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [clethro]
Apr 05, 2006 (2:57 pm)
You know, I just don't get it.
It's not that tough to figure out. The Prius was developed for two basic reasons. To save fossil fuel and lower emissions. Japan was hot on their number one auto maker to do something so they could try and meet the obligations signed with the Kyoto Treaty.
When the Prius hit our shores with it's advertised 48 MPG folks were skeptical. Some of us tried them and a few bought them. The early Prius was a little econobox similar to the Echo. Not great looking and only got limited attention. Then someone at Toyota had the brilliant idea to get the Greenies in Hollywood interested. The rest is history as far as popularity. If the Prius II had lived up to the hype and most owners were getting 55 MPG combined, I don't think you would see all the cost counting. When the actual mileage started to be publicized many started calculating the pay back. The big question, was the high prices being asked justified? If you are only buying the car for the luxury features, there are nicer cars in the same price range. If you like the high tech aspects then I don't see any reason for worrying about the price. If you are on a budget and the gas mileage is your main concern, there are less expensive options.
Are other people pointing out to those buyers that they'll never break even on the difference between the $40K SUV that they bought instead of, say, a $25K or $30K minivan?
I for one do not see much similarity between an SUV and a minivan. I don't see why people would consider an SUV if all they need to do is haul kids and stuff to soccer practice. Unless of course they live where it snows a lot. Or they have a travel trailer they take camping on the weekends. Those comparisons are so much different than whether to "hybridize" or not.
Now I just don't get it. How can someone compare the hybrid system in an SUV to buying leather seats or a moonroof. Where is the logic there? The only logic I can attach to the Hybrid SUVs is for someone that feels very strongly that they are using more than their share of fossil fuel or dumping a few more ounces of pollution in the air than they should. You cannot put a price on guilt. It is quite obvious that is the main impetus in buying these high powered hybrid SUVs. Apply salve to the guilty conscience, while not giving up any of the power and size of the vehicle.
#6734 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [clethro]
Apr 05, 2006 (3:04 pm)
"The second factor is that it is inevitable that in the next few years we (the US) are going to have to finally confront global warming and that we are going to be faced with carbon taxes and a mandated reduction in CO2 emissions."
I must point out that this is opinion. There is no doubt that the planet is warming, but it is not a fact that it is CO2 that is causing this. And carbon reductions don't work. Last time I checked, the cost was 170 billion $$ for a reduction in temperature of 0.001762619 °C.
I agree that the US (and the world) will have to confront global warming, but most like by adjusting to it. Warming (and cooling) happens, and has always happened during the planet's life cycle.
#6735 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [gagrice]
Apr 05, 2006 (3:35 pm)
If the Prius II had lived up to the hype and most owners were getting 55 MPG combined,
We have the EPA and its testing that is unrepresentative of how people actually drive to thank for the misleading hype.
I don't see why people would consider an SUV if all they need to do is haul kids and stuff to soccer practice.
The SUVs I see aren't pulling or hauling anything. It makes sense for big families to have them. The ones I see have either just a driver alone or may have the driver plus up to two kids and maybe a second adult.
Apply salve to the guilty conscience,
I used to wonder about conscience and the guilt factor. Then I read "The Tragedy of the Commons" (written by Garrett Hardin in 1968.) Now, I'm enlightened about conscience and guilt.
#6736 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [midnightcowboy]
Apr 05, 2006 (8:25 pm)
Rrrrrriiiiigggghhhhttttt. Which are the better alternatives out there? The HCH is similar to the Prius, the HAH is a souped-up hybrid that has limited appeal. The only "better" hybrid in the near future is the TCH, which isn't even out yet.
And the year or longer waiting lists in 2004 started before the government prop of $100-$500 off their taxes was even known by most people (perhaps even before it was instituted).
#6737 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [clethro]
Apr 05, 2006 (8:49 pm)
I agree clethro! The Prius itself is not the problem, it just highlights how far off the EPA testing cycle is from the driving style and conditions of most people. The whole talk about the Prius not "living up to the hype" by not getting 55mpg cracks me up. So people are saying since it is getting 48 (from greenhybrid) instead of 55, they are going to keep driving their car which gets maybe 24-25 mpg. Hmm...yeap, they sure are smart. Frankly, if it was only about the cheapest way to get from point A to point B, no one would ever buy a new car, much less a Prius.
None of those that I know that have an SUV use it to haul anything besides kids (and about half of those don't even half kids).
#6738 of 7505 Re: Prius sales 2005 - 2006 [micheals]
Apr 05, 2006 (9:01 pm)
Examples of EPA testing being off on non hybrid vehicles:
Azera road test... EPA 19/28/24 .. Edmunds 17.7 - 25% off
Sonata road test... EPA 20/30/25 .. Edmunds 19.6 - 22% off
Camry road test... EPA 22/31/27 .. Edmunds 20.4 - 24% off
It seems dependent on the driver and the way the vehicle is used. What a revelation!