Last post on Jul 28, 2013 at 8:39 AM
You are in the Toyota Prius
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Prius, Hybrid Cars
Sep 24, 2003 (5:41 am)
My husband and I are each only children, so no brothers/sisters to convince.
We had quite a fun time showing off my mother's Prius to all my cousins over Labor Day weekend, so maybe...
One of my husband's college roommates did buy a 2002 Prius (on his own - he didn't know we had one at the time he placed his order). But that doesn't fill out the set.
A family friend would love to get a minivan with a Prius-like hybrid system. If only Toyota sold their hybrid Estima in the US! (Toyota also sells the Alphard as a hybrid in Japan now...) he's just waiting for the release of the (2005?) hybrid Sienna in the US.
Sep 24, 2003 (8:47 am)
___My original post from this morning was deleted ... Here it is again.
___I just picked up the EPA city estimates via a Toyota E-Mail as well. The city mileage is absolutely astounding!
Most of the Toyota E-Mail contents:
The numbers are in--the all-new 2004 Toyota Prius recently received its EPA-estimated ratings of 60 mpg city and 51 mpg highway. That's a combined city/highway average of 55 mpg--the highest fuel economy of any mid-size car*. With mileage like that, think about all the money you'll save on gas.
The 2004 Prius will also help you save the planet, thanks to new technology called Hybrid Synergy Driveģ, which delivers all the power of a conventional car with almost 90% fewer smog-forming emissions.
The all-new 2004 Prius arrives at your local Toyota dealer October 17. Until then, learn more at http://www.toyota.com/newprius.
___With the final EPA City/Hwy actuals in hand, letís redo some calcís not including battery replacement for a mostly city type driver ... Letís say 15,000 miles a year over 10 years which although high for exclusive city driving, should be a good comparison ... An average Corolla LE/Civic LX are only rated for 29 in the city and cost ~ $15K although the Toyota is better equipped (ABS/EBD/15Ē wheels/larger overall) vs. the Civic at that price.
___The Honda Civic/Toyota Corolla contingent would use 5,172 gallons of fuel over a 150,000 mile/10 year lifespan. With that, the Prius would use just 2,500 gallons of fuel. At $1.75 per gallon, thatís a difference of $4,676.00 in favor of the Prius. I am using a rather average high (all time high actually) price for fuel which is probably incorrect over a 10 year life span ... Advantage Prius.
___If you were able to receive an 04 Prius before the tax year ends, you will receive an ~ $560.00 tax savings ($2,000 deduction X an average 28% tax bracket). Advantage Prius.
___Initial pricing of the Civic/Corolla contingent will be ~ $15,000 (estimates depending on how many more additional options you were to include ...) vs. the Priusí initial $20,500 + taxes on the difference (depends on your local state tax structure?) give an advantage of ~ $5,800 in favor of the Civic/Corolla. There is a lost potential for the 5.8K as well as a cost for financing that extra amount but let it go as just another car payment for some and a paying cash for others.
___As for resale, most automobiles with 150,000 miles of all-city type driving are shot. It would be better to give any of the 3 vehicles away at that mileage than to keep them running from what I have seen of older automobiles in the City of Chicago proper ... The Priusí battery replacement wonít make any difference in that environment at that many miles.
___After all is said and done, the Prius costs just $564.00 more. There are a few costs which would not favor the Prius missing as explained above but a pure city driver should definitely consider the new Prius at the top of his list just for the ability to own a PZEV/SULEV with the few extra features the Prius has.
___Now if they could only get them in the Toyota dealerships in quantity so as to knock some off that MSRP off for others that will be interested ...
___Given my high mileage all-Hwy use, the 04 Prius wonít be in my drive anytime soon but it may just knock another grand or two off a used Honda Insight 5-speedís resale which is what I am looking at right now. I have to hand it to Toyota; they did a great job on the 04 Priusí drive train capability in terms of city fuel economy this time around ...
___Good Luck to you all.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Sep 24, 2003 (9:25 am)
Just to reiterate, my local NY/CT metro area dealers say mid to late October will be when I can test drive one.
Sep 24, 2003 (9:57 am)
my local dealer said if i ordered one today, i would expect to see it mid november. price would be msrp.
#1837 of 7508 Wow, a lot of new owners!
Sep 24, 2003 (12:19 pm)
To paul34b, jeep2jetta, mrvadeboncoeur and dupie -
Thanks for responding to my question about 2004 Prius purchases. It will be fun hearing about your upcoming delivery experiences!
To xcel - Thanks for re-posting.
To everyone - On the subject of the 2004 Prius vs Honda Insight or other cars, this topic seems to keep coming up a lot here. I'm thinking it might be a good idea to start up a new discussion on the subject. That way, people here can focus more on the subject of the 2004 Prius. What do you think? Send me an email (revkaedmunds.com) if you like the idea, and I'll get started on it.
And now, back to the subject of the 2004 Toyota Prius. Happy motoring!
Host of Hatchbacks & Wagons
#1838 of 7508 Insight, eh????
Sep 24, 2003 (1:04 pm)
Why would you buy an Insight except for bragging rights of the first hybrid on the road? A Civic Hybrid would be more comfortable, but harder to spot in a parking lot, I guess.
Does anybody know if Hyundai/Kia have any plans for a hybrid car? Hybrids on the cheap!!!!!!!
Sep 24, 2003 (2:07 pm)
___The only reason someone should even consider an Insight (only a used one at that) is that the 2000 Ė 2003 5 Speed Insightís have the capability of 90 + mpg on the hwy and can be obtained for a price between 9K and 13K with less then 25,000 miles. Looking for new, there is absolutely no way to justify it. Thatís the boat I am in. With a 180 mile commute, mileage means absolutely everything with a TCO being affected most by the initial purchase price because I am going to drive it into the ground anyway. Everything else when comparing the two vehicles should dissuade anyone from even looking at an Insight let alone considering one given the much smaller size (2 seater with human(s) and cargo weight limits of < 400 #ís to meet specís), lower city EPA estimates with the CVT, lesser performance no matter the transmission, far fewer amenities (no cruise on an Insight!), and to make John happy, much higher emissions (ULEV for the 5 Speed, SULEV for the CVT).
___As for the Honda Civic Hybrid, they are in deep trouble as well. In fact, I would say the Civic EX and Accord LX/EX may lose a few customers to the 04 Prius. High Priced Taurusí, Impalaís, and Camryís will lose some share to the Prius also. I canít think of any car manufacture that wonít lose a small amount of customers to the Prius given Americaís appetite for new tech but in my case, the Initial and TCO just donít work out unfortunately.
___As far as what America needs vs. what it wants, the lower income American needs an affordable Hybrid with 60 mpg city/51 Hwy and the lower emissions. Selling 30 to 50,000 04 Priusí wonít fix the smog problem in the cities nor reduce our oil dependence a significant amount. Adding to this, a $20,000 + Hybrid is too much money for the lower income folks IMHO.
___Anyway, at least the 01/02 Insight 5 speeds should drop a bit more in price once the 04 Prius is released which can only help me looking for a super high mileage car for an even less expensive initial cost.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Sep 24, 2003 (2:33 pm)
> Selling 30 to 50,000 04 Priusí wonít fix the smog
> problem in the cities nor reduce our oil dependence
> a significant amount.
With the reputation this next generation hybrid builds, sales will skyrocket. That will in fact make a huge difference... in the long-term, and Prius will be given the credit for doing that.
Remember, Toyota has to establish credibility for HSD somehow. Prius is the vehicle they chose to do that.