Last post on Jul 28, 2013 at 8:39 AM
You are in the Toyota Prius
What is this discussion about?
Toyota Prius, Hybrid Cars
Sep 17, 2003 (9:03 am)
Go to "Understanding the Prius"
If you want to know just about the (2001-2003)
Prius' engine vs. that of the Echo, I then suggest
reading the "The Internal Combustion Engine" section.
I know that the THS-II (Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive)
that's on the 2004 Prius is beefed up from the old
THS, but I don't recall what points at the moment,
but I'm certain that the Toyota documents on THS-II
cover the differences.
Sep 17, 2003 (10:39 am)
That is the best site I have seen that explains the Prius planetary gearset. The diagrams and animations are very helpful. Thanks for the link.
#1727 of 7508 2004 presentation from Toyota
Sep 17, 2003 (11:25 am)
Here's a presentation provided by Toyota...
It was originally a PowerPoint file for use at forums. Now it's 54 webpages (loaded with lots of info & photos about the 2004 model) available to us online.
Sep 17, 2003 (1:15 pm)
___I have no delusions about oil going any direction. I just mentioned to Daina about the amount of oil available in the Oil Sands which is great for Canada as a whole.
___Mrvadeboncoeur, thank you for the link as well. I also didnít know about the Priusí planetary CVT until John mentioned that it was not belt driven like most others and your link showed it in detail. Great site if I do say so myself.
___Jchan2, I havenít heard back from the 03 Prius E-Bay purchaser so far? As for your other comments, I donít really care if you can load up an EX or a Prius although many may? I only care if I can get a reasonably loaded 04 Prius for $15,200 like I did the Corolla LE. You know, Automatic, ABS, EBFD, A/C, Power Windows, Locks, Mirrors, Cruise, and 40 + mpg? Itís even cheaper now with the $600 cash back! For only $1,300 more, I could have had Leather and a Sunroof! Unfortunately, it appears as if the 04 Prius will be ~ $5,000 short of those numbers. With the 40,000 to 50,000 miles/year I travel now, at least I only have to wait ~ 5 or 6 more years ...
___And to continue on with the affordability issue ... Why didnít Toyota get the new Prius down to an affordable level? After reading 5 hours worth of posts in the ďIs it time to buy a hybrid? Are they up to the chore?Ē thread, someone posted a link that I thought was interesting.
ď37% of respondents would be willing to pay an additional $1,000 or more for a hybrid vehicle.Ē
___The above quote was found here: http://www.motorportal.com/pr%20newswire/hybrid_vehicle_demand.htm.
___What is the percentage that would consider a Hybrid at $4,000 - $5,000 +?
___At least there is even more interest in the 04 Toyota Hybrid than the previous generation. I can only hope it brings the cost down to affordable levels in the near future for all so that my next vehicle is a Hybrid as well. Unless I can find a low mileage 01/02 Insight w/ Manual transmission for < $11,000
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Sep 17, 2003 (1:39 pm)
> Why didnít Toyota get the new Prius down to an affordable level?
Prius was intentionally designed to fit between Corolla & Camry.
The reason is because Toyota wants to increase market share, that means not competing with itself. A hybrid Corolla would take away from regular Corolla sales. But since Prius is a little better in basically every respect (except emissions & efficiency, which is a lot better), there is no way to directly compare them.
Also, many people are still under the impression that because a hybrid gets fantastic MPG that it must be an "economy" car. And that's just plain not true. Toyota's strategy forces people to check their facts.
In time, there really will be a hybrid Corolla available. The price will be close to what you'd expect it to be.
#1730 of 7508 What I would pay for a hybrid
Sep 17, 2003 (7:05 pm)
anywhere from $1000-$3595 and all the power. What my return is beating that H2 at the stoplight. that Prius was probably a former rental. Toyota offers TRAC. (Toyota Rent A Car) But why did they get rid of it soo early at 4700 miles? Surely they would have profited more out of it before throwing it on eBay with no reserve. Maybe this was in an accident and was a rental.
Sep 17, 2003 (7:57 pm)
If someone here has Carfax and has the VIN from eBay... let us know.
Sep 18, 2003 (12:12 am)
>John said: Prius was intentionally designed to fit between Corolla & Camry.
___It sure was ... Your 01 Prius was designed as the smallest Toyota available here in the states given it is smaller than the Echo according to Toyota? The only reason the 04 Prius is considered a Midsize is because of the hatch. In any case, the 04 Prius Hatchback is closer to a Camry (+ 6.1 cu ft) than a std. Corolla (- 8.4 cu ft). If we were to compare apples to apples however, an 04 Prius Sedan would be larger by (~ 4.4 cu ft) vs. the Corolla and smaller than the Camry by (~ 10.1 cu ft.). Quite a bit closer to the 03/04 Corolla, isnít it. Here are the EPA specs for the 01-03 Prius, 03 ECHO, 03/04 Corolla, 04 Prius, and 02-04 Camry from smallest to largest for you to consider:
01 - 03 Prius Sedan:
EPA passenger cargo volume (cu ft): 88.6/Luggage Capacity 11.8 (cu ft) * Total: 100.4 (cu ft)
03 ECHO 4 Dr. Sedan:
EPA passenger cargo volume (cu ft): 88.0/Luggage Capacity 13.6 (cu ft) * Total: 101.6 (cu ft)
03/04 Corolla Sedan:
EPA passenger cargo volume (cu ft): 90.3/Luggage Capacity 13.6 (cu ft) * Total: 103.9 (cu ft)
03/04 Corolla Hatchback (Calculated):
EPA passenger volume (cu ft): 92.3/Luggage Capacity of 15.6 (cu ft) * Total: 107.9 (cu ft)
04 Prius Sedan (Calculated):
EPA passenger cargo volume (cu ft): 94.2/Luggage Capacity 14.1 (cu ft) * Total: 108.3 (cu ft) <-- Whoops, thatís a Compact car!
04 Prius Hatchback:
EPA passenger cargo volume (cu ft): 96.2/Luggage Capacity 16.1 (cu ft) * Total: 112.3 (cu ft)
04 Camry Sedan:
EPA passenger cargo volume (cu ft): 101.7/Luggage Capacity 16.7 (cu ft) * Total: 118.4 (cu ft)
___I estimated the hatch stats by calculating the approximate (cu ft) I would gain if a hatch came standard on the Corolla which would have began at the Sedans rear roof edge to the rear edge of the trunk. This yielded an additional 4 (cu. ft.). I took the same 4 (cu. ft.) away from the 04 Prius Hatchback if it were available as a Sedan. You can follow the Ford Focus Station Wagon discussion a few pages back for the reasoning.
___In any case, a relatively loaded 04 Corolla costs at least $5,350 less (considering the $150.00 incentive available) given $20,500 for a base Prius before taxes which is still a bit much for a compact car IMHO? Is it worth it? If it were a size consideration only (itís not of course), the 02/03/04 Camry with its much larger and lower costs would be the ideal. I only compared the 04 Prius to all of the above because you keep mentioning it is a midsize car. It is given the addition of the hatch by a total of 2 (cu ft). Why arenít Compact station wagons listed as midsize cars again?
___For $1,500 - $2,000 over the cost of a Corolla LE, I would definitely consider purchasing the 04 Prius (if it were available today given I like the looks and the tech) but not $5,350 +. The extremely large initial and possibly much larger differential when considering TCO as discussed over the last 5 or more pages is more than many can swallow. It is a great advance and a car I wish I owned but not until the cost works out for me and/or the average Joe.
> John said: But since Prius is a little better in basically every respect (except emissions & efficiency, which is a lot better)
___Performance? 0-60 the 04 Prius still appears to be slower from what you and I have read? Given the 01 Ė 03ís had dismal performance numbers from 0 to 30, 30 to 60, and 0 to 60, the 04 will hopefully come close to matching an 04 Corolla w/ Auto. The 04 Corolla Manual? Not a chance. I havenít read about the 04ís handling prowess yet but I hope its better then the 01 Ė 03ís given their performance but weíll see soon enough. The 04 Prius Initial and Total Cost of Ownership is still quite a leap above a comparable 03/04 Corolla LE over the short and especially the longer term given the battery replacement unknowns. What basically ďevery respectĒ were you speaking of? Emissions, Fuel mileage, and Passenger room but not Initial cost, Total Cost, and Performance? I would love to see a poll as to why the average American purchases one vehicle over another.
Group Number 1: Far less emissions (SULEV vs. ULEV), 20% better fuel efficiency (in my mostly hwy driving case anyway), and 7.5% more passenger room
Group Number 2: Initial Cost at least 25% less, Total Cost upwards of 40% less, increased performance of possibly 5% to 10%?
> John said: Also, many people are still under the impression that because a hybrid gets fantastic MPG that it must be an "economy" car. And that's just plain not true. Toyota's strategy forces people to check their facts.
___Given the 04 Prius has the same purpose as that of an economy car, what is it? I call the Acura EL an economy car even though it is loaded with luxury amenities. I call the Toyota Corolla LE an economy car even after being loaded with everything including Leather and a Sunroof. I also believe most would call the Honda Civic EX an economy car even though it includes power everything and a sunroof as well? Loading up an automobile doesnít get rid of its nature. You should know this better than anyone given the nature of your driving and options available to you when you purchased your 01?
> John said: In time, there really will be a hybrid Corolla available. The price will be close to what you'd expect it to be.
___John, I donít really care when they come out with a Corolla Hybrid given they had the chance and skipped it. Would it have been cheaper to throw a Hybrid system in the new Corolla as an option then design a completely new Prius? Leave out the leather, sunroof, and touch screen LCD, and it should be closer to a wash than over $5,000 difference! Give me a few knobs to turn on the A/C with and leave a std. LCD to see what is going on. I believe everyone here knows which platform would have been the least expensive and possibly smarter choice given the Corollaís redesign, heritage, and history just last year? Even if they were to make the Corolla Hybrid with a hatchback design and call it a midsize, it wonít make a difference unless Initial and TCO drops dramatically. What I hope everyone will see is a Prius, Corolla, Camry, or even an Avalon Hybrid that makes sense economically. Today, not even the latest Prius can make that claim to the detriment of us all.
___Jchan2, I wish it were only $1,000 to $3,595 but it is not. As far as hearing back from the 03 Prius auction winner, I havenít heard a thing yet?
___Orangelebaron, here is the VIN of that 03: JT2BK12U130080575. If you have a subscription to car fax, please post what you find ...
___Good Luck to you all.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
#1733 of 7508 Prius04 Presentation Charts
Sep 18, 2003 (4:46 am)
I like the Prius04 presentation a lot and I'd like to have a copy of it if I could, but I don't want to copy each page! Do you know is there a way I can download the entire presentation at once?
Since I've ordered One and don't have anything to show to my friends and an I attemp to save the "forest" , I'd like to show it on my notebook computer.
Sep 18, 2003 (5:28 am)
> It sure was ... Your 01 Prius was
I was talk about the *ONLY* model currently in production. It is a complete redesign, baring not resemblance to the previous. And since the classic model isn't available from the manufacturer anymore, comparisons for a purchase don't serve much purpose.
> The only reason the 04 Prius is considered a Midsize...
How many reasons do you need? Anyway, we already pointed out the generous leg room too. People actually deem that more important that overall volume available.
> Given the 04 Prius has the same purpose as that of
> an economy car, what is it?
Once again, it appears as though I need to point out that EFFICIENCY is *NOT* the primary goal... LOWEST EMISSIONS is, hence the AT-PZEV-2 rating.
> I donít really care when they come out with a Corolla
> Hybrid given they had the chance and skipped it.
They didn't "skip" it. Long-Term planning includes Corolla. Focusing solely on short-term doesn't accomplish much. The point that seems to be overlooked is that Toyota is selling ever single one of the Prius they make. That extra $$$ for them is helping pave the way towards high-volume production and the lower cost you desire. Patience.
And don't forget that Toyota will eventually have competition. So the variety of efforts they pursue now will payoff later. Focusing only on the economy aspect would limit opportunities.