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#129 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [carpetguy]
Jun 04, 2009 (12:25 pm)
I am in a very simliar situation. A dealer is offering me a 2008 "NEW" vehicle that has 220 miles on the odometer. The CarFax report is showing that a few months ago it had 15,000 miles on it (from service done at that very dealership!).
The salesman asserts that this IS and WILL BE SOLD TO ME as a "NEW" vehicle, and that the CarFax data is wrong. He said he will attempt to rectify this with them, but that could take months.
How can I confirm, through visual inspection, whether the car has 15,000 miles on it. Since this is a big discrepancy in the mileage, I'm sure there are some things I can look for that will give me the answer. Tires, fluids, filters can all be changed, so that's not going to cut it.
Thank you in advance !
#130 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [solaraman2003]
by MrShift@Edmunds HOST
Jun 04, 2009 (12:43 pm)
Seems highly unlikely that a dealership would risk possible jail time (this is a Federal offense) to make a little money, and to try to do it so boldly. CARFAX is hardly infallible. I've caught any number of mistakes on it.
You could always try to run the VIN # through DMV. If they never registered it, that was a helluva demo car then.
So the car has its window sticker, MSO, owner's books all wrapped up neatly, all that stuff?
#131 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [solaraman2003]
Jun 04, 2009 (10:42 pm)
Exactly what does the Carfax show? If it shows the car being sold from that dealer to a private individual with 15,000 miles, this is very strange. But if it shows the car going into the dealers inventory with 15,000 miles, then it is probably an error. It probably was 15 miles and someones finger twitched on the 0 three times.
#132 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [Mr_Shiftright]
Jun 05, 2009 (1:33 am)
1. The car was NEVER REGISTERED, only titled to two different dealerships. The car was supposedly purchased by one dealership from another.
2.Window sticker appears fully intact. I didn't examine it very very closely, but the salesman told me over the phone that it is completely intact, never removed. I can check that when i go there this week.
3. I didn't ask about the MSO. I'm not sure what that would tell me since I believe the originating dealer was Dealer 1 who sold it to Dealer 2.
#133 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [bolivar]
Jun 05, 2009 (1:53 am)
Here's an overview of the CarFax:
10/7/2007 11 miles Dealer_1 Vehicle offered for sale
10/13/2007 ------ Dealer_1 Pre-Delivery inspection completed.
10/13/2008 ----------- Dealer_1 Vehicle serviced.
2/15/2009 ------------- "Dealer Inventory" Vehicle offered for sale.
3/1/2009 15,436 miles Dealer_2 Vehicle serviced.
5/1/2009 15,447 miles Dealer_2 Vehicle serviced.
Some other facts:
1.The dealership has an "A+" rating with the Better Business Bureau.
2.When I first inquired about this vehicle on the phone, I spoke to 3 different people and got different responses from them as to whether this was a "new" vehicle or a "used" one. Some of their own internal records seem to have the car listed as a "used" car. For instance, the first salesman I spoke to on the phone said to me that "although the car is brand new, the title changed from one dealer to us and so it would have to be sold to you on paper as a "used" car even though it's brand new." He eventually backed down on that saying that "no, it is a NEW car and will be sold to you as "NEW". The good salesman I am now dealing with even tells me that the key has a "USED" inventory tag on it !
3.The first salesman gave me a copy of the "vehicle inquiry report". It shows:
Category = "H"
Ship Date = 8/30/2007
Retail Date = 10/20/008
Date of First Use = 10/20/2008
"Retailed for more than a year"
So what I also don't know is how does that "vehicle inquiry report" data get updated and what does that stuff actually mean? What does all that mean in relation to the CarFax data?
#134 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [solaraman2003]
Jun 05, 2009 (9:58 am)
Carfax also reports if it is a 1 or 2 owner info.Can u provide that info?It also gives info if it was sold as fleet or corporate lease.
Do u have that info?
#135 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [solaraman2003]
Jun 05, 2009 (10:03 am)
A follow up-if it says retailed,then most probably it is a used car.
And the salesmen might be confused and the sales manager manager may be totally unaware of these transactions.
Sometimes salespeople do not know everything about the car`s history and sometimes can give u inaccurate info ,Unintentionally of course..Mistakes can happen or probably they are just too lazy to find out the whole info on that car.
My advice would be- call and speak to the New Car Manager/Sales manager and he an figure things out for u.
#136 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [deltheking]
Jun 05, 2009 (10:35 am)
I have requested 12 different CarFax reports from vehicles I have looked at, so I am a little familiar with what entries they can contain.
This one, like most I have requested, doesn't say anything about 1-owner or 2-owner. I have one from 1-owner vehicle and that one does indeed clearly state that fact.
There is no mention of "fleet" or "corporate lease". The "Vehicle Inquiry Reports" that I have all say "NON-FLEET" for all the new cars I've looked at.
The "retailed" statement is on the "Vehicle Inquiry Report" and reads "Retailed for more than a year". I don't know exactly what that means. Perhaps it just means that it was put up for sale for more than a year.
As I said, the saleman (who seems to be on the ball) explains that this information is all erroneous, and that he CAN clear it up with time.
I wanted to know how often mistakes like this happen, why is there misinformation on the "Vehicle Inquiry Report" as well, how easy it might be for him to correct the CarFax record, and ....whether or not I should go ahead a PURCHASE the vehicle with the erroneous information in CarFax.
If I buy the car with the erroneous CarFax info on record, what happens when I go to sell the car next year, or 2 or 6 years from now? What would you think as a prospective buyer? I know if it were me I would lose interest immediately because I would suspect that there was some major incident with the vehicle. In other words, the first time I go for registration/title/inspection/repairs at dealer, there will be an entry in CarFax that now says "225 miles .... Vehicle Serviced". What would you think if you saw that entry just folllowing an entry that stated there was over 15,000 miles on the car?
I'm concerned about 2 things:
1) That the 220 miles IS INDEED the true mileage, and the info I'm seeing is erroneous.
2) Clearing up the erroneous record(s).
If those two issues are satisfied, I can then negotiate to buy the car and sleep at night (or day).
#137 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [solaraman2003]
Jun 05, 2009 (1:53 pm)
"I know that if were me I would lose interest immediately...." Well, it is YOU, why are you still interested?
It doesn't matter what the true state of affairs is here - the value of the vehicle is compromised by the existing documentary record. Carfax makes mistakes all the time. Sometimes they can be rectified and sometimes they can't.
If you're really that interested, just tell the dealer to call you when the records have been cleared up. Until then, steer clear.
#138 of 169 Re: New car odometer rollback? [cccompson]
Jun 05, 2009 (3:58 pm)
And what bothers me, you said there are TWO entries about dealer service, with a few miles different, showing the 15,xxx mile range.
One could be a mistake. But two?
In general, unless the price of this car is what a 15,000 mile used car could be bought for, and you really, really want this car, I would run away.