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#1 of 169 Mileage Fraud!! Odometer was rolled back!!! What 2 do?
Oct 21, 2003 (8:05 pm)
HELP!?! I purchased a 99 Tahoe which was fully loaded of of a DEALERS!! lot and in claiming warrenty work found out from a certified GM clock/ speedometer repair center that the mileage was rolled back!! What can i do? Dealer is fighting the issue and blaming previous owner!
Help me please!
#2 of 169 Call your attorney general,
Oct 21, 2003 (8:10 pm)
ASAP. Get very official with the dealer and do not agree to any recourse or waive any of your rights, as in a "waiver of claim" against the dealer.
Oct 22, 2003 (5:26 am)
Talk more about your proof and details. If I read your post correctly: You were having work done on the IP Cluster and the shop discovered indications of previous work? And they provided you with a written statement that the mileage had been turned back? How much did they say it was turned back? The dealer then says that their signned odometer statements from the previous owner and to you match the shown mileages? So you think the former owner and the dealer have conspired together to misrepresent the mileage? Please more details for all of us.
#4 of 169 How prevalent is this?
Oct 22, 2003 (12:12 pm)
For those of us looking to buy used veh's.
How prevalent is this problem, rolling back Odo's. Is there a way to check this out prior to buying?
p.s. Good luck Zodac.
#5 of 169 There is no way to entirely prevent this
Oct 22, 2003 (1:33 pm)
from what I've read. Digital odometers were supposed to make this more difficult, but can be done in 20 mins. with a laptop and software you can buy on the internet.
If they are available, regular service records from the date of purchase would help. But you're only likely to get these from a private sale.
Carfax reports (and the like) can be helpful too, but I also read an article that those doing rollbacks go to the same reports and roll back to the last reported mileage.
IMHO, used cars = "Buyer Beware". Perhaps one positive point for buying new.
#6 of 169 Florida, "clockers" paradise---------
Oct 22, 2003 (2:25 pm)
"Clocking" or rolling back odos as it's known in the trade is VERY common here in Florida. it has been estimated that at least 20% going thru the auctions have been tampered. Very tough to prove especially on didgital odos as no mechanical work is required and so little evidence of tampering. A paper trail on the vehicle, service records etc. is about the only way you could prove the fact, especally in a law suit. This is a Federal offense. My son is a federal officer with the U S Dept.of Justice at a federal lock-up / correctional facility here in Florida and they have several clockers doing hard time. NO parole in the fed system. How's 10 years for doing the nasty deed, eh ?
#7 of 169 Florida, "clockers" paradise--------- by hudrahead ..
Oct 22, 2003 (5:46 pm)
...... Where dooooo you get this info ... ?
Your son can work for Jeb Bush himself, and still NOT see 1%, let alone 20% .l.o.l.. I'm at every major auction in Florida and been doing it going on 20 years and whether the dealer is in Tallahassee, Ft Myers or Miami they haven't seen 20, let alone all these "clockers" as you call it, your information is only about 10yrs old ....
Now I have seen a few pass through the auctions that have jumped by Kansas City via Baltimore, traveled back to Chicago, did a little side shuffle to Texas, then wandered it's way back down south, but as a rule, good dealers don't waste their time with vehicles that have done the "tour" ..
Florida has one of the toughest regulations in the country, I won't mention any names, but a HUGE dealer up the Ocala way lost $3mill and spent 6 months being Bubba's babe for trying to click back some rental vehicles .. it aint worth it, all you have to do is follow the DMV's ...
#8 of 169 One is too many for sure
Oct 23, 2003 (9:29 am)
Terry, Terry, relax !! The "source" was a business contact that was pretty high up Manheim (corporate level) so I tended to belive him. Why would he say that if not some truth to it ? I happen to live in Ocala and I would LOVE to know what "huge" dealer that was that got busted for odo rollback. I really don't know of any "huge" dealers right here in town. Could it have been over Daytona ? If it would have actually been Ocala I'm sure I would have heard about that. The only thing huge in Ocala is the silence on Silver Springs Blvd. after the sun goes down. LOL
By the way, the federal lock-up Coleman Fl. IS huge. The largest federal correctional facility in the US. Don't know how many Bubbas they have for each inmate.I'll have to ask my son what the Bubba to inmate ratio is. LOL !
Apr 18, 2005 (1:25 pm)
Reactivated by request... I smell a story coming!!
Jun 21, 2005 (6:18 am)
Fraud is really REALLY hard to prove. What most consumers think of as "fraud" usually boils down to "misrepresentation", which can still be illegal but doesn't carry anywhere near the weight or penalties of fraud.
Basically, from what I understand of the law (which might be incomplete), with fraud you have to prove INTENT on the part of the seller.....and without hard evidence, that's pretty tough.....now "misrepresentation" can be pinned on somebody (EVEN YOU!) even if you didn't have intent....so what I mean is just because you didn't KNOW the car you were selling had been rolled back, you are still responsible to some extent for how the deal came down.
So this "caveat emptor" is also widely misunderstood....people think that once they sell a used car in a private party deal, they are free and clear of any responsibility. Oh, yeah? That's just not so.
My advice is to not only be careful of what you buy, but of what you sell.
You may get away with "puffery" in your ad, like "best car I ever owned", but if you say it's got 40,000 miles and it has 80,000, whether you knew that or not, you're in for trouble.
CLOCKING -- I'm with Terry here, I don't think much of this goes on anymore. It DOES happen but a dealer would have to be totally nuts unless he is doing business out of a tent with quick-release pegs.
A GREATER RISK is "laundered" salvage titles IMO.