Last post on May 05, 2006 at 3:23 PM
You are in the Infiniti G35
What is this discussion about?
Infiniti G35, Acura TL, Sedan
Oct 30, 2003 (10:21 am)
I couldn't have put it better myself. We've had: 1996 Integra GS-R; 1997 Accord EX; 2001 Acura 3.2TL. All had awesome engines, probably the smoothest engines I'd ever driven. But I sold my GS-R because you had to rev the snot out of it to go anywhere. Above 5500 rpm, it went like a scalded cat, but was flat below that. Our TL is the same way. Like you said, lack of torque. Look at the S2000. What an awesome machine. 240hp out of only 2000cc! Just incredible!! But you've gotta beat on it.
Even the new '04TL is that way. 270hp, but less torque. I'll live with the very slightly less refined VQ for her to have more torque off the line. I guess it could be a long debate, but I think that a lot of people who describe their car as "fast" are feeling the torque, not the horsepower.
Oct 30, 2003 (10:21 am)
"For an everyday driver, more torque means quicker off the line starts and you don't need to rev it too high before getting the power down. Like all Honda VTECs, this one too is peaky and needs high revs."
Gotta disagree with that. You simply do not need a bazillion lb-ft to get a 3,400 lbs car moving. More torque would just cause excessive wheel spin and pedal-induced right-hand turns.
As for using the stability control to moderate torque steer, I suppose that is possible. But the control system uses the brakes for that sort of thing. Meaning that the extra torque is wasted.
Oct 30, 2003 (11:04 am)
I know this is a mundane subject for the afficionados that post here, but have you seen the new dark blue color for the G-35? If I were buying it- leaning towards the TL- it would be my first choice with the tan interior and real wood. I'd probably add some faux wood to make the interior a bit more rich looking. Speaking of colors, the carribean blue may be the worst color I've seen; I'd place it in the same category as canary yellow- a color I see on the road at times.
Oct 30, 2003 (11:07 am)
I don't claim to fully understand all the ins and outs, but I understand that torque steer is a much more significant issue on the Maxima with the MT than the AT. Likewise, torque steer is not much of an issue for the Murano 2wd, perhaps because of the CVT. We may also see some differences in the TL line. I'm also uncertain as to how the LSD on the TL 6MT will influence the situation.
Oct 30, 2003 (11:22 am)
If you go by need, then you don't even need 160 HP to move a 3000 odd pound sedan. A 100-120 HP engine would do fine. What we are talking about here is sport sedans, and in that context, more HP and torque.
Also, what makes you think that more torque means wheelspin and does not translate into quicker off the line acceleration? As posted earlier, even the base model in Nissan's lineup, the Altima V6, manages to outperform the Honda V6 in ANY application, with similar or less HP figures.
Honda's VTECs need high revving, and its a universally accepted fact. Once they are in their power band, they go like a scalded cat, but in daily applications, one hardly revs up teh engine so high, unless you are at a stop light Grand Prix. The new iVTEC (I4 Accord) is much better in this respect and has resolved the problem to a certain extent.
Traction control makes the best use of power available to control wheel spin, and this translates to quicker starts. Even modern F1 cars use launch control (another version of TC) to get faster off the line starts. In the end it all depends on how well the manufacturer can control the ever increasing HP and torque numbers being generated by new engines. BTW, one of the new AMGs, I think the S55, delivers close to 570lbs/ft of torque. Do you think that is all wasted?
Oct 30, 2003 (12:09 pm)
A freind has this combo, with the wood trim package also. It is very attractive, and works well on this car.
#207 of 1334 03Accordman
Oct 30, 2003 (12:32 pm)
When I wrote "need", I was talking about what the car can handle, not what the driver wants.
Variable valve technologies allow the engine to breathe at whichever rate is most efficient for the engine at a given rpm. In a cam-driven design like Honda's that means (at least) two different rates. That means one that is good for low rpm performance and another that is good for the high end.
If Honda went without a VVT, they would have to pick one rate. Probably a middle ground somewhere between the two, which means that both the high and low ends would be compromised.
You are thinking only of the VTECs from Honda sports cars. Indeed those are high revving engines designed with peak HP as the ultimate goal. That is not the end of the story. Honda also makes engines meant for vehicles weighing over 4,000 lbs.
A better example than the I4 in the Accord would be the K24 in the CR-V, which peaks at a very reasonable 3,600 rpms with 162 lb-ft (not bad for a 2.4L engine). The I4 used in the Accord and Element peaks at 4,500 rpms. Or, you could also use the original engine from the MDX which had the flattest torque curve I've seen in an NA engine.
"Also, what makes you think that more torque means wheelspin and does not translate into quicker off the line acceleration?"
More torque generally does. But only if the tires, drivetrain, and road surface can handle it. There is a point of diminishing returns. Add more torque to a car like the TL and you'll also have to add bigger/stickier tires. Not to put too fine a point on it, but a TL using gobs of torque would lose most stop light races. It would sit there spinning it's wheels until A) the driver lets off the gas, or B) traction control brakes the wheels to a near standstill. Either way, you ain't goin' nowhere.
The AMG example you chose probably cannot make use of all that torque without wheel slippage. Traction control will step in, but that is effectively using the brakes to reduce the torque. Once again, the torque is wasted on fighting with brakes. I'll wager that it can use more torque than the Tl, but that is by virtue of the fact that the AMG is a completely different layout with tires and a driveline prepared to handle the power.
Think of what that engine would do in a TL... splatter it on a Jersey barrier.
Find a FWDer that has more torque than a TL and doesn't exhibit problems like Nissan's torque steer, control issues like Saab's Viggen, or front tires the size of those mounted on the back of a Vette or Viper.