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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Who can compete with Toyota/Lexus Hybrids? 
126 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2003 at 11:50 PM
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| I'm thinking of ordering Driftwood Pearl on the 2004 Prius - we already have a Silver car. Has anyone seen this color. It doesn't look great in the brochure but it does look good online. Thanks! (I currently have a Lexus in "burnished gold" which really looks taupe). Help! | |
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Prius isn't a perpetual machine. If it were, it would get 999999999999 MPG rather than 55 MPG. Why are you making false claims? Efficiency is greatly improved over traditional designs. The power-split device allows the engine to run at an optimum RPM (which saves gas) then uses the remaining thrust to turn the generator (to create electricity for use later, which also saves gas). The end result is quite a savings, but it still required the use of some gas to achieve that. JOHN |
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| you're right john...but it won't get 999999mpg even if it is a perpetual motion machine. perpetual motion machine implied a closed system (no outside intervention). the prius gets charged with help from petrol and/or regenerative braking (hence external intervention). midnightcowboys, i have seen patents where it also uses oscillating energy from shock absorbers to help recharge the batteries... | |
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Hi All: ___This probably will ... http://www.motortrend.com/features/news/112_news52/ ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes ___Waynegerdes  earthlink.net
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> This probably will... But what will HSD have evolved into by then? You've already seen how much it has advanced in just 3 years. Another 3 years and the benefit soon from high-volume production could change everything. It may not be able to compete with that. JOHN |
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Hi John1701a: ___This vehicle will be for sale in Europe in 4 months. With 53 mpg combined (this may be a misnomer given Imperial gallons and the higher mileage rating from the European agencies City/Hwy estimate). ___Here is some more information ... ************************************************** http://www.honda.co.uk/news/20030901.html : Accord's "Whispering" Diesel Delivers a Mighty Punch The Accord 2.2 i-CTDi does not disappoint. Measured across a range of criteria, the new unit delivers a blend of performance, refinement and efficiency to compete with the very best in the market. A combined fuel consumption of 52.3 (Tourer 48.7 mpg) and peak torque of 340 Nm at just 2,000 rpm, are both improvements on the benchmark Audi A4 TDi 130 and BMW 320. Moreover, with an output of 140 PS at 4,000 rpm, it delivers a level of responsiveness and acceleration that together with low engine noise and vibration make for extremely relaxed and comfortable motoring. High torque gives excellent acceleration and responsiveness at low speed for in-town driving, superior responsiveness and acceleration in the mid-range and sustained high speed driving at low engine speeds; it also brings the added benefit of minimal gear changing. 0-62 mph is despatched in just 9.4 seconds (Tourer 10.1 seconds) and 50-75 mph in 11.2 seconds. This all-round performance is rounded off by low CO2 emissions - 143 and 153 g/km CO2 for the saloon and Tourer, respectively. And it surpasses with ease the stringent Euro IV requirements ... ************************************************** http://xtramsn.co.nz/motoring/0,,6308-2636496,00.html : Honda Switches To Diesel Power ************************************************** http://www.carkeys.co.uk/NE007815.htm : Accord Gets Honda Diesel Power output is 138bhp, and the lightweight aluminum-block engine produces a hefty 250lb/ft of torque at 2000rpm. The saloon manages the 0-62mph sprint in 9.4 seconds, gives a combined fuel consumption of 52.3mpg, and rates just 143g/km in the CO2 test. ************************************************** ___I can bet this can give Honda the edge vs. a Toyota HSD onslaught? I have a lot of questions myself but who knows? Honda has probably the best engine designers on the planet and with them, they have performed some real magic over the past 20 years. I know it will be a while before the < 30 ppm sulfur diesel is available throughout the US but it is available in Europe now! When it finally is available in the US, this could answer a lot of the questions many may have in regards to a Low Emission yet Low Cost/High Mileage compact or mid-sized automobile? Now all we need to see is the HC and NOx output numbers. I also wonder what Honda has done as far as a particulate trap to solve that problem particular to diesels? Maybe the engine is so clean from the combustion process that it doesn’t need one? ___On the power side of the equation, 138 bhp and 250 ft lb’s of torque while achieving 52 + mpg in a car that might weigh twice again as much as an Insight is really amazing. I am probably way off on the mpg comparison given imperial gallons and different non-EPA test loops as mentioned directly above so hopefully someone will find a real answer as to this Europe spec’ed, diesel equipped Honda Accord/Acura TSX’s real highway and city mpg. Not great but very good CO2 numbers in comparison to the Insight’s 128/144 g/mile in Manual/CVT configuration(s) respectively as well. Imagine a 1.7 or 1.8 L iCTDi in a 4 DR. Civic LX w/ a CVT based Auto for about $16.5K. 0 to 60 in sub 9 seconds and mileage in the high 50’s/low 60’s with very low emissions ... What more could anyone ask ... especially at that kind of cost! ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes ___Waynegerdes earthlink.net |
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> This vehicle will be for sale in Europe in 4 months Again, what does that mean to us *HERE* where gas is cheap and automatic transmissions are preferred? *THIS* market is much different from that in Europe. JOHN |
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Hi John1701a: ___From your previous post: “But what will HSD have evolved into by then? You've already seen how much it has advanced in just 3 years. Another 3 years and the benefit soon from high-volume production could change everything. It may not be able to compete with that.” ___I thought you were asking if it was 3 years before the Diesel equipped Accord makes it to market. In Europe, it makes it to market in 4 months. ___As for here in the US, this is where money meets the road. Neither of us can do anything about US’s high sulfur diesel today unfortunately but in Europe, it will be an interesting side by side, given the title of this thread. The 04 Prius at $20,500 is a highly efficient/low emission compact/midsize automobile but I would rather drive a true mid-size like an Accord with all of the above except it will cost around $18 - $18,500. A $16 to $16,500 Civic LX with a 1.7 L iCTDi engine, even lower emissions, and probably just as high performance would be even better  Again, it’s only the cost and TCO that is the 04 Prius’ Achilles heel IMO. ___From your previous post: “Again, what does that mean to us *HERE* where gas is cheap and automatic transmissions are preferred? *THIS* market is much different from that in Europe.” ___I did mention an Auto above (CVT hopefully) given the CVT is already available in the 1.7 L Civic HX, GX, and Hybrid. As for the here, again, I can’t help that big oil in this country hasn’t yet produced Diesel in low sulfur content so we will probably have to wait while the European’s enjoy high mileage, low emissions, and low initial and TCO with the Euro spec’ed Accord. I am still waiting to see the HC and NOx as well as initial cost in comparison to any 04 Prius’ that make it over to Europe. ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes ___Waynegerdes earthlink.net |
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| every manufacturer builds or imports a car here has a diesel in its lineup. petrol price is high (the last i checked it is around 1.35 a litre). furthermore there is a higher tax on bigger engine. hence you see lots of smaller cars. the automotive press here does not like the classic prius because of its driving dynamic (i guess it is not sporty enough). i bought one because i like the new technology but now it is getting old as to speak. i do like the new prius for its high tech gadgetry. the keyless go is a feature i really like and it seems toyota did a great job mass market the gadget for very little money. the similar feature found on mercedes is many times more expensive option. ... | |
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