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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Who can compete with Toyota/Lexus Hybrids? 
126 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2003 at 11:50 PM
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well, this is for sure. The hybrid RX (called RX400H) will be here in six months. This will not particularly be a gas-saver, but rather will have the power of a V-8 with the fuel economy of the V-6. The real question in this thread should be "who wants to compete with Toyota hybrids?" Is there any mandate for competitors to do anything other than continue business as usual for twenty years while they work on fuel cells? This is not a rhetorical question: I think opinions might vary widely. While I am a bit of an environmentalist and prioritize "green" factors somewhat when choosing a car, it has been shown time and time again that it is hard to sell superlative fuel economy to car-buyers as a stand-alone benefit, and even harder to sell them on less tangible benefits like super-low smog-forming emissions. If the domestics and other competitors can toe the line on the minimal CAFE standards for their fleets, what is really spurring them to work hard and spend a ton of money on developing hybrids or anything else? |
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I was reading the brand new features of an LS430, and I was chuckling to find some of those features on the 2004 Prius (voice activated navi, smart-entry system, etc.). Maybe Toyota should've rebaded the '04 Prius as a Lexus:). If the hybrid drivetrain will be estimated to achieve V-8 power with V-6 economy on the RX, imagine what kind of economy it would get if it just got the normal V-6 power and V-4 economy:-0. I mean, why advertise it to be *more* powerful instead of making it *as powerful* as before with better jumps in economy. Kind of lulling consumers into not wanting what they don't know is possible (I think V-6 power on an RX is power enough). Anyway, not to digress away from my real question: Does anyone know the roundabout timetable (around what months) for the hybrid drivetrain to trickle down to the other Toyota/Lexus models? I do like the Prius and am willing to get it, but I'm also a big fan of their SUV/trucks. I'm just trying to get a better feel for their roadmap for the HSD. |
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Toyota Plans Lots More Hybrids "If the hybrid drivetrain will be estimated to achieve V-8 power with V-6 economy on the RX, imagine what kind of economy it would get if it just got the normal V-6 power and V-4 economy" An I4 engine might not be significantly more fuel efficient. While it's not a behemoth, the RX330 is a heavy vehicle. A four cyl would have to work pretty hard to get it moving. Impressions from the Highlander with the 2.4 have been luke-warm at best. And it's fuel economy is merely "okay". |
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| Also when 4 cylinder engines get too big they get nasty in terms of vibration. Anything over 2 liters is pushing your luck. | |
| Well... Honda's 2.4 in the Accord, CR-V, and Element has solved that problem with a balancer shaft. I've never heard complaints about Toyota's 2.4, either. The big pot 4 in the Liberty is kinda rough and so is the 2.5 in several Subarus, but I think 2.2 - 2.4 is still pretty safe territory. | |
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Yes but you have to get pretty tricky to compensate. Gold star for Mitsubishi for figuring all that out originally. There's a reason very few automakers have built 4 cylinder cars past 2.5. I'm even trying to think of some....oh, the Pontiac Tempest had one, and the Tatra was another....and I think the Peugeot diesel. All bone shakers, too. So having a smaller 4 cylinder working with electric motors is a good solution to keeping displacement down while getting good performance and fuel mileage and emissions results. But as people have mentioned, no technology eliminates another technology unless it is clearly superior. Doesn't appear that hybrids are quite to that point vis a vis gas-only cars. |
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| I'm thinking of ordering Driftwood Pearl on the 2004 Prius - we already have a Silver car. Has anyone seen this color. It doesn't look great in the brochure but it does look good online. Thanks! (I currently have a Lexus in "burnished gold" which really looks taupe). Help! | |
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Prius isn't a perpetual machine. If it were, it would get 999999999999 MPG rather than 55 MPG. Why are you making false claims? Efficiency is greatly improved over traditional designs. The power-split device allows the engine to run at an optimum RPM (which saves gas) then uses the remaining thrust to turn the generator (to create electricity for use later, which also saves gas). The end result is quite a savings, but it still required the use of some gas to achieve that. JOHN |
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| you're right john...but it won't get 999999mpg even if it is a perpetual motion machine. perpetual motion machine implied a closed system (no outside intervention). the prius gets charged with help from petrol and/or regenerative braking (hence external intervention). midnightcowboys, i have seen patents where it also uses oscillating energy from shock absorbers to help recharge the batteries... | |
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