You are here: Forums Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Who can compete with Toyota/Lexus Hybrids? 

Who can compete with Toyota/Lexus Hybrids? - READ ONLY

126 messages,  Last post on Nov 28, 2003 at 11:50 PM

You are in the Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer

This discussion is ARCHIVED. To reactivate the discussion, post a request in the Lost? Ask the Hybrids Host for directions! discussion.

What is this discussion about? Lexus, Toyota Prius, Honda Insight, Ford, Hybrid Cars

Messages Page 5 of 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 13 Prev Next Last

Go To Msg # Search This Discussion

#37 of 126 yeah by nippononly Oct 16, 2003 (9:48 am)
that is why Honda needs to be the one to bring on the hybrid sport coupe - their hybrid system allows the use of a manual!   What if they added an electric to the existing EX engine and put it in an SI chassis? The 127 hp 1.7 gets great mileage already - I am sure hybridizing it would bring mileage up to match the levels of the new Prius, only the car would be faster and smaller and handle well.
#38 of 126 I'm not so sure....................................... by daysailer Oct 16, 2003 (10:12 am)
that a hybrid Civic EX would match the new Prius' fuel mileage, but it might be a car that I would buy (price dependent, of course). Better yet, why not an update of the 1.6L Si engine with IMA.
#39 of 126 leave it to the japanese ... by eandlcubed Oct 16, 2003 (10:14 am)
i don't think any american or european car company can compete with toyota or even honda. they are the only two automakers not fully or partially own by any other maker. toyota did a great job in scaring the german back in 1990 when it rebadged its japanese line to be known as lexus and priced it dirt cheap and more reliable compared to mercedes. back in those days, its flagship car, the ls400, was competed with the mid-range e-class. no one dared to touch the mercedes flagship s-class. but look at lexus now, its ls430 is a direct competition to the s-class and with the e500 price range. as for ford, it delays its intro to a hybrid for another year. merc and bimmer are working on either fuel cell or hydrogen hybrid. baloney! we have to wait to see if honda will improve its hybrid too. i owned both mercedes, '89 and '00 e-class, and '99 lexus rx300 and let me tell you the lexus was far more luxurious than my '00 e-class. i would put my bet on toyota to further refine the hybrid technology and someday we may see it on a lexus. i read somewhere that your '04 toyota sienna xle limited actually feels like a lexus. hat off to toyota to have come out with its second gen prius while others are still in the "research" phase.
#40 of 126 not the host here... by Mr_Shiftright HOST Oct 16, 2003 (5:49 pm)
daysailer---if I were an engineer, I would never use EITHER term, torque or horsepower, I would use cylinder pressure. I guess engineers think terms like "horsepower" and "torque" are marketing terms cooked up by suits in ad agencies. They may be right.   But if horsepower is just torque at speed well then some diesels are very MIGHTY indeed.   One of the Hemmings magazines was talking about this, how a six cylinder 12.4 liter diesel engine, under turbo boost, would theoretically deliver around 1,200 HP at 3,500 rpm. Now a Viper is 8 liters at 500 HP, so that diesel is doing a great (theoretical) job.
#41 of 126 "someday we may see it on a lexus." by nippononly Oct 17, 2003 (7:04 am)
well, this is for sure. The hybrid RX (called RX400H) will be here in six months. This will not particularly be a gas-saver, but rather will have the power of a V-8 with the fuel economy of the V-6.   The real question in this thread should be "who wants to compete with Toyota hybrids?" Is there any mandate for competitors to do anything other than continue business as usual for twenty years while they work on fuel cells? This is not a rhetorical question: I think opinions might vary widely.   While I am a bit of an environmentalist and prioritize "green" factors somewhat when choosing a car, it has been shown time and time again that it is hard to sell superlative fuel economy to car-buyers as a stand-alone benefit, and even harder to sell them on less tangible benefits like super-low smog-forming emissions.   If the domestics and other competitors can toe the line on the minimal CAFE standards for their fleets, what is really spurring them to work hard and spend a ton of money on developing hybrids or anything else?
#42 of 126 HSD trickle-down by crimsono2 Oct 17, 2003 (8:34 am)
I was reading the brand new features of an LS430, and I was chuckling to find some of those features on the 2004 Prius (voice activated navi, smart-entry system, etc.). Maybe Toyota should've rebaded the '04 Prius as a Lexus:). If the hybrid drivetrain will be estimated to achieve V-8 power with V-6 economy on the RX, imagine what kind of economy it would get if it just got the normal V-6 power and V-4 economy:-0. I mean, why advertise it to be *more* powerful instead of making it *as powerful* as before with better jumps in economy. Kind of lulling consumers into not wanting what they don't know is possible (I think V-6 power on an RX is power enough).   Anyway, not to digress away from my real question: Does anyone know the roundabout timetable (around what months) for the hybrid drivetrain to trickle down to the other Toyota/Lexus models? I do like the Prius and am willing to get it, but I'm also a big fan of their SUV/trucks. I'm just trying to get a better feel for their roadmap for the HSD.
#43 of 126 by varmint Oct 17, 2003 (9:07 am)
Toyota Plans Lots More Hybrids   "If the hybrid drivetrain will be estimated to achieve V-8 power with V-6 economy on the RX, imagine what kind of economy it would get if it just got the normal V-6 power and V-4 economy"   An I4 engine might not be significantly more fuel efficient. While it's not a behemoth, the RX330 is a heavy vehicle. A four cyl would have to work pretty hard to get it moving. Impressions from the Highlander with the 2.4 have been luke-warm at best. And it's fuel economy is merely "okay".
#44 of 126 not the host here by Mr_Shiftright HOST Oct 17, 2003 (9:28 am)
Also when 4 cylinder engines get too big they get nasty in terms of vibration. Anything over 2 liters is pushing your luck.
#45 of 126 by varmint Oct 17, 2003 (9:43 am)
Well... Honda's 2.4 in the Accord, CR-V, and Element has solved that problem with a balancer shaft. I've never heard complaints about Toyota's 2.4, either. The big pot 4 in the Liberty is kinda rough and so is the 2.5 in several Subarus, but I think 2.2 - 2.4 is still pretty safe territory.
#46 of 126 not the host here by Mr_Shiftright HOST Oct 17, 2003 (12:15 pm)
Yes but you have to get pretty tricky to compensate. Gold star for Mitsubishi for figuring all that out originally.    There's a reason very few automakers have built 4 cylinder cars past 2.5. I'm even trying to think of some....oh, the Pontiac Tempest had one, and the Tatra was another....and I think the Peugeot diesel. All bone shakers, too.   So having a smaller 4 cylinder working with electric motors is a good solution to keeping displacement down while getting good performance and fuel mileage and emissions results.   But as people have mentioned, no technology eliminates another technology unless it is clearly superior. Doesn't appear that hybrids are quite to that point vis a vis gas-only cars.

Messages Page 5 of 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 13 Prev Next Last

Go To Msg # Search This Discussion

You are here: Forums Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Who can compete with Toyota/Lexus Hybrids?