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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Who can compete with Toyota/Lexus Hybrids? 
126 messages, Last post on Nov 28, 2003 at 11:50 PM
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| the "power deficit" is continuous because the full output of the IC engine is NEVER available to the driveline due to the losses of the generator and electric drive. This is part of the compromise to reduce emissions and fuel consumption and is not a bad thing, per se, but nor is it an advantage to be touted. | |
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It was believed that battery-pack charge could not be increased much on the highway. I stated that is actually is, and by quite a bit. That's it. There is no "compromise", since there's more than enough thrust available from the engine for cruising anyway, even while recharging. JOHN |
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Not really. Since you don't NEED that extra power anyway, there is no loss other than that you WANT it. JOHN |
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the big 2.5 could sure use some products that are competitive in the fuel economy arena, to balance out their CAFE ratings. If diesel, then so be it. But maybe then they could spend some money encouraging the oil companies to put in diesel at every station, as unleaded is today. It would be a big step towards encouraging people to buy diesel vehicles. And maybe they should also make some diesels available in trucks BESIDES the very biggest. But of course this strategy will have to wait until the low-sulfur diesel is available nationwide in four years. Hybrids are here now. |
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| if the various GM rental cars that I've had in recent months are representative, fuel economy is one rare area where they are competitive. All weigh upwards of 3200lbs, none provide enviable performance, NVH or ergonomics and none are cars that I would buy, but they all manage ~30mpg in prediminantly highway driving, similar to my Miata and Acura TL. | |
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What strikes me very hard about the new Prius is that this is a futuristic vehicle that actually works right here and now. It's something like what photography was back when it first started. If you look at say Civil War photos, they are remarkably good. And this "science" came out decades before electric lighting and telephones or even indoor plumbing (1848 or so). What makes me think that the hybrid is (in some form) the car of the future is that the Prius actually approximates the performance of a normal car! In other words, it is ALMOST as good and it's only been out a few years. This is a far cry from the first pathetic electrics and diesels, which were, and which remained for decades, substantially inferior to their gasoline counterparts. Better technology always wins if it has the ability to displace the competing technology. Cassettes knocked out 8-tracks, and DVDs are just about ready to digest VHS. But the rotary did not displace the piston engine and solar heat did not replace natural gas. I think hybrids have the "right stuff" to replace the conventionally powered gasoline engine because they will deliver a car just as fast, just as roomy, giving upwards of 100 mpg pretty soon (Prius is at 60 mpg CITY driving!) and....here's the clincher...it won't cost any more than a very average conventional car. Honda is even talking (so I've heard) about a hybrid NSX will the performance to match the previous reputation. Think about that! Not sure how this relates to tow vehicles, mass transit, heavy trucking, etc., but one step at a time. |
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I was at the "Engine of Changes" event today. There were four 2004 Prius being test driven. When asked how the feel was, one person actually called it "Lexus Quality" since the transmission is so amazingly smooth. I wonder how the heck the other automakers are going to compete with that. JOHN |
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They aren't. Toyota is going to beat them senseless in this market. This soooo much reminds me of 1973 when the first gas crisis hit. Of course, the Big Three were blind-sided by the gas crunch (to be fair, so were most Western governments), and the Japanese fell right into a pot of gold, mostly unintentionally, by having Datsun 510s, Corollas, Coronas and Civics fully developed for the marketplace. All that's keeping the boom in hybrids from happening are one or two economic and/or environmental circumstances, any of which is certainly within the realm of possibility. It isn't far-fetched to think of gas at $3 a gallon or of environmental regulations tightening up even more as scientific data gets better. I like the new hatchback style for the Prius. Reminds me of the old Saab 900 5-door hatches, where you could drop the back seats and stuff a piano in there. Somehow the Prius has managed to lower the floor height and also make a fairly attractive car as well. And acceleration is right in whispering range of the PT Cruiser and Range Rover, according to my 0-60 stats (two of the slowest cars on the market today). The big question is, though, how are we ever going to get a nice engine sound out of these things? |
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According to Honda's CEO, they are not taking the hybrid route with the NSX. However, this could easily be just another bit of their infamous subterfuge. That said, the engine under the hood of the HSC concept car looks an awful lot like the design used in the DN-X. http://www.popsci.com/popsci/auto/article/0,12543,220824-1,00.htm- l I expect this is what we'll see with the RL, but perhaps not in the first year. We'll see. |
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