Last post on Nov 24, 2012 at 7:28 PM
You are in the Ford Mustang
What is this discussion about?
Ford Mustang, Coupe
Apr 02, 2005 (10:16 pm)
Most people associate midlife crisis with a sports car. For my dad its been quite the opposite, he never needed a family sedan to begin with. So in 1995 at age 37 he got rid of his "Pocket Rocket" Toyota celica for a Ford contour that car was a bridge for the chevy Malibu in 2000. That was midlife crisis thinking he needs a family sedan when he never needed one. Finally he realized that and at age 47 got a Ford Mustang and in my opinion his midlife crisis ended. For the 2010 and beyond it will be back to sport cars, rightfully so.
#878 of 2921 Why there is no *new* Camaro/Firebird is a mystery...
Apr 02, 2005 (11:54 pm)
I have a Mustang GT Vert and I love it, but it would be on the trade block in a minute if there was a GOOD Camaro/Firebird reminiscent of the late 60's with similar performance to the '05 Mustang (power/milage on 87 gas).
My Mustang would be a memory. I'd order the Firebird at sticker and put up with delays if there were any. Maybe I'm a minority - but I think such a car would be a SURE THING for GM. Those cars were the greatest looking bodies in muscle car history I think.
But it's fine because I love my Stang! I just think it goes to show what is possible if you bring back a classic and do it RIGHT.
The GTO and Charger don't have me booking out my trade if you know what I mean...
#879 of 2921 Mustang wins California 200 in Grand-Am Cup
Apr 03, 2005 (6:51 am)
Two Mustangs went 1-2 in this seasons first Grand-Am Cup race. A new Mustang won another race (the California 200) on Saturday, 4-2-05.
pictures from the California 200
Pontiac will race two GTOs in the Grand American Rolex Sports Car Series by mid season.
Sales of the new GTO have improved since it went on the market. It has more larger, more poweful brakes along with a new power steering pump, a 400 hp LS2, and some other changes for 2005. Here is the 05 GTO.
#880 of 2921 Re: Mustang wins California 200 in Grand-Am Cup [xkss]
Apr 04, 2005 (6:01 am)
Nice post....nice pics.....
Got a chance to finally detail my Mustang for the first time yesterday with nice weather on tap. That always allows for a good inspection for any car. Everything from the quality of the paint job to the thoughtfullness of the ergonomics to the obvious engineering that has been done on this car shows that Ford did their homework well. That doesn't begin to comment on the obvious strong performance of this car (at least in GT form). As good as the exterior looks, the interior is very nice (mine has the Interior Upgrade Package). Body panels all like up with a nice tight fit. Paint is even and very glossy. Interior fits are great and the fit finish is very nice inside.
It's a great time to be a Mustang fan.
Conversely, GM has shot an airball (too much March Madness) with the GTO. That's truly a shame. If they had done one right and was competitive in the marketplace, the muscle coupe car wars would rage on. Don't know about other parts of the country, but the '05 GTOs aren't selling any better than the '04s did around here. Most dealers have stock, in every color, which has been languishing for up to 2 months on the '05 GTO. Some still have new '04s sitting on the lots. For the GTO hopeful, perhaps more rebates are on the horizon.
Having looked closely, and test driven both the Mustang GT and the GTO before ordering my Mustang, a few things stuck me immediately. First, the Mustang handles, brakes, shifts and steers better than the GTO. Performance of the Mustang GT and either the '04 or '05 GTO are so close to dead even in real world driving as to be a non-issue. Styling, hands down goes to the Mustang (and by what the marketplace has responded to). Then there's the price disparity. Even being able to buy the GTO at GM's employee discount and the Mustang with Ford's friends and family discount, the price of the GTO was still about $5K more than the Mustang GT (all loaded up). Add to that, the obvious hit resale value will be given the '04 GTO's heavy rebates (and the '05s inevitible rebates), my purchase decision was quite clear. As an aside, I think my decision of the GTO's longevity was right. GM won't make an '07 GTO and even the '06 MY GTO is at risk of not being built due to it's poor showing in the marketplace.
Again, that's a shame. I wish GM would have done better.
As it stands, Ford is alone for right now in the Muscle car space. I don't know that there will be much "cross shopping" of the upcoming Charger since it's not a coupe and will only available with an automatic.
#881 of 2921 Re: SVT GT500 [graphicguy]
Apr 04, 2005 (6:50 am)
Interesting you are right, there is more to a car then just horespower... why does the new mustang still use an OUTDATED Solid rear axle setup? Also the Mustang is NOT entirely new, it rides on a nearly 6 yr old chassis from '00 Lincoln LS.
Actually according to Car and Driver the steering and brakes are BETTER on the GTO then Mustang in their January 2005 Article. C&D showed the GTO beating the Mustang in every performance category, LOL! Car and Driver and Consumer Reports said the GTO had one of GM's best interiors and seats. The only reason the Mustang won the comparison was because it scored more points in the got to have it factor. Which was BS.
The Backseat is larger on the GTO then Mustang, 41 cu ft vs 31 cu ft, according to C&D. Which for me made a big dif, with using a childs car seat, much easier to safely fit.
Sales do not indicate that one car is better the another. Esp. since GM can ONLY bring a max of 18,000 GTO here for the 3yr contract of 2004 to 2006. They can't sell anymore then that. Remember the Holden Monaro is a VERY GOOD selling car in Austrailia. It only came out in late 2001 in coupe form, very good chassis just like the Mustangs is.
I did NOT pay $33k for my GTO, try about $30k even. Which is what a fully loaded Mustang would nearly cost! I got 100 more hp and a corvette drivetrain.
One more thing, INSURANCE in my case is cheaper on the GTO then Mustang by about $100 per year, !
Both car are VERY GOOD, Mustang or GTO... Just preferences I guess!
#882 of 2921 Re: SVT GT500 [gunit]
Apr 04, 2005 (7:07 am)
First, the solid axle is FAR from outdated - it's the most sophisticated ever put in a production car - more kin to what you'd find in a purpose built race car. It doesn't seem to hurt the Grand Am race cars. It's not what you start with - it's how you implement it. Most test drivers say they can't tell it's not IRS from a handling perspective.
Second, the mustang chassis IS all new - they started with the LS platform but only kept the floor pan and fuel tank.
Not arguing about which car is better - just trying to set the facts straight.
And saying the GTO has one of GM's best interiors is not saying very much.
#883 of 2921 new Mustang
Apr 04, 2005 (7:25 am)
The new Mustang's chassis only shares the floor pan with the Lincoln LS.
Here is the new Mustang's chassis.
great info and pics of 2005 Mustang
GM interiors are improving over what they replace.
#884 of 2921 no flame intended....
Apr 04, 2005 (9:02 am)
I'm not intending to flame. Just going through my thought process when looking at both the GTO and the Mustang.
Pricewise, my Mustang under Ford X plan was ~$25,600. Only options I didn't get was an automatic trans and the Shaker 1000 stereo (Shaker 500 is mighty fine for me). My GMS/GMO price would have been ~$30,200 for an '05 GTO 6M. That's a hefty $4,600 swing.
If you want to compare MSRP's ....My Mustang's was $28,050. GTO M6 was $33,690.....again, a hefty swing of $5,640 in the Mustang's favor.
Styling has been debated to death. I really like the Mustang's. At best, I was lukewarm about the GTO.
Steering of the Mustang was much more to my liking (being more responsive) than the GTO's. GTO brakes felt spongy to me. Shifter in the Mustang was very positive whereas the GTO's was rubbery by comparison.
Having driven both, the IRS in the GTO doesn't offer any better handling or ride quality than the solid rear of the Mustang. Ford did a wonderful job in this dept....one of the best ride/handling tradeoffs I've experienced.
Back seat wasn't an issue to me. Both are cramped, but the GTO, did indeed have a bit more room in the back.
Sales numbers for the GTO, no matter which way you slice it, have been very disappointing. True to the point that there will be no more for '07 and maybe not even an '06 MY GTO.
As has been said before, saying that the GTO's interior is the best GM offers, is not really a high complement given GM's design of interior's in the past.
I find the Mustang's interior to be every bit as nice, maybe nicer (with the aluminum IUP package) and more ergonomic that the GTO's.
Again, not flaming....just pointing out my reasoning between the two and why I chose the Mustang over the GTO. The fact that the GTO was even on my shopping list says I was interested in the car.
#885 of 2921 Re: SVT GT500 [gunit]
Apr 04, 2005 (9:24 am)
About the sales; you are correct that GM can only import 18,000 of the rebadged Monaros, but they can't even sell those! Whereas the Mustang's production had to be ramped up because Ford can't even keep up with the orders (GT, that is)!
#886 of 2921 Re: SVT GT500 [gunit]
Apr 04, 2005 (11:04 am)
I have a couple questions gunit, and am not trying to start something nor flame:
Why is it that whenever some makes a comment that doesn't flatter or put the GTO on a pedestal, GTO buyers get upset? I mean, myself, akirby, graphic and others just state why they like and/or bought the Mustang over the GTO, made and gave good informative info, and yet they are jumped on by yourself and other GTO owners/buyers?
Why always bring up the horsepower / rear-end thing? Yet there's never talk about the following: 5-spd versus 4-spd auto; GTO gas-guzzler; Mustangs have 300hp on unleaded versus GTO 400hp on premium; limited selection of options for GTO; confusing and somewhat non-existent marketing for GTO. It seems the horsepower, IRS is really the only thing that comes up, that and the interior. Yeah, the interior is good and an improvement, but it really doesn't represent GMNA interiors and what we've been getting in the past and continue to get. Yes, GMNA has made improvements, but v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y.
Yes, there is only capacity for 18K per year, but didn't GM reduce the number to only 12k per year. Not sure why this number was reduced but betcha it was due to the poor response to the car.
Don't really agree with the "got-to-have-it" factor. Let's just be honest, Ford listened to the buyers and current owners, but more importantly, the designers and engineers nailed it! And not only with the car, but the marketing, the packages, options, price, the whole nine. GM didn't do that with this US GTO-Monaro. But if you want to include the "got-to-have-it", what happened with the GTO, the first RWD coupe since what 1987 - 1988? Was it all the fault of the dealers, with their crazy mark-ups, snobby attitudes and the like?; was it GM's pricing of the car, lack of market presentation, was it the introduction time? As stated previously by myself and others, the car is decent. Myself and others knew of the car years ago, but it was still good and something we wanted, not as a GTO, maybe a hot Chevy (could this be the root cause of it failing?). GM had a good car, they just half-assed it and blew it.