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Smart Shopper Buying and Selling Vehicles Online (eBay, etc.)
225 messages, Last post on Sep 24, 2009 at 8:13 AM
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Well, easy to explain. A 1984 RX7 isn't worth anything, that's why the price was low. It's a $1,000 car all day long. My old Benz diesel for instance, is worth what it's worth (not much). To someone, getting a very clean old Benz for $1,250 is a "steal", but that's what the market is. so what I"m saying is that if some cars are bargains on Ebay, it isn't because of Ebay, it's because the cars are bargains no matter where you sell them. But yes, you might not FIND those bargains elsewhere so easily, you're right about that. Ebay is driven by supply and demand just like any other market, with the added externality of bidder competition driving prices up I think. Really you'd have to see the car in person to know if it were a "steal" or not. You simply can't tell from the photos, it's very tricky. Is a clean low mileage WHATEVER a steal if the transmission acts real funny when you get it delivered to your house? Or if that digital camera hid the brush marks in the paint?
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I knew i could count on you to say that about the rx7, shifty. But, as you also pointed out, try to find it anywhere else. Its not going to happen. There are certain cars that there is just no "book" on. The price is what you are willing to pay for it. Regardless, watch what RX7s sell for on there and you'd know this particular one was, in fact, a real bargain based on what others have paid for worse examples. I've seen earlier RX7s in not great shape go for more. Of course, this brings up the whole "market" issue. On one hand, someone like you looks at that car and thinks it ain't worth much (it definitely went for more than $1K). But if several others think it is.... well, then, that's what its worth, isn't it? Same with any car. People pay more for a 2-year-old bimmer than I would ever fork over for it, but just because i don't think its worth it doesn't mean the market won't bear it. The rx is only a $1K car to YOU. But since a dozen other people who saw it were willing to pay more, than its obviously worth more than your assessment on the open market. And considering I thought it was still a steal beyond the price paid, then it is worth more still because folks are willing to pay it. oh, and i do agree about wanting to see the car. I'd be hard pressed to buy a car sight unseen. Not so much because I don't trust people (especially since i'd only do that with someone who had immaculate feedback well into the triple digits) but because I don't trust that they necessarily know what to look for. |
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Well, I haven't seen the particular RX-7 sold on Ebay so I can't appraise it. All I'm passing on is the information that old RX-7s are generally very low dollar cars, so one should be careful about assessing their sale as "a steal". Could be the only theft going on is on the part of the seller. He may have made out like a bandit. Good for him. Could be, too, that the buyer could never resell at that price. The problem here, which comes up all the time in understanding used car values, is that one sale on Ebay doesn't set the market for old RX-7s. All it proves is on that day that one car sold for more than book value. Fair enough. I just saw a beautiful, drop dead gorgeous 1980 Porsche 928 for sale, (today) all records, $20,000 spend recently on mechanicals, two-owner, bright red paint, a virtual supercar for.......$5,500. A steal? Nope, that's what it's worth. But the "outsider" to Porsche values would probably gasp in disbelief that so much car could be had for so little money. So what's the catch with bargain RX-7s and 928s? Why are they so cheap? Because so few people want them, basically. Another problem with auctions, either live or Ebay, is that the auction "drama" or "competition" tends to drive up the price beyond the normal pressures of supply and demand. So you get a couple bidders getting really hungry for the car and they whip each other into a bidding frenzy and pay over book for something. This doesn't mean they were "ripped" by any means, if they got what they wanted and what they expected. Maybe they paid too much but it's their money, so what's the argument? |
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but how do you put a "worth" or even a "market" on something that there is no comparison for? That 928 you speak of, for instance, have you seen another with $20K invested and in such beautiful shape sell for $5500 recently? something like that is worth what someone is willing to pay. That's the definition of "market." The market is what folks are paying. And you can't say someone paid too much without a basis of comparison. If you could pull up 10 other sales of 928s in perfect shape with $20K invested over the past 2 or 3 months and say "ok, so they all sold for an average of $5K-$6K", then there is your market and value. Since you can't do that, then there is no true value or worth that we can determine other than what someone pays. The one thing you can learn from ebay is that more than one person was willing to pay that price or somewhere very near it. in a private sale or dealer sale, a price is agreed upon. That doesn't tell you much. ESPECIALLY when its something that there is no match for on the market. I can't look through autotrader or the local paper and find even one example, let alone several, of that 928 to tell me what I truly should be paying for it. But on ebay, or any auction environment, the price was set through a bidding process. So at least one other person was willing to pay $5450 for that 928. i do agree with you about the heat of auctions, however. I go to auctions quite often with my wife (mostly for antiques and furniture, but the occasional car comes up) and sometimes you just have to laugh at people. |
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I bought a 95 Miata on Ebay. Great car, but like shifty said, it wasn't quite in the condition the seller said it was. It wasn't trashed in any way, but things were a little off. He said new tires, I felt I needed to replace them right away. The car needed new brake pads. The top was a little more weathered than stated as well, but that was about it. Still a decent car for the money though. Would I do it again? Probably not. Although, has anyone heard of, or used those car inspection services that will go check out a car for you in a location far away? If those services are legit I would consider ebay again. Of course I only used ebay back then because I was living in such a small town that it was hard to find the exact car I was looking for. Now that I am in LA I doubt I will need ebay unless I am buying something super rare. The classified section here is like a used car superstore. |
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| Anytime I go on there and actually want to surf for vehicles, I restrict the results to my area. I'm definitely going to check that car out and I'd hate to pay for shipping. | |
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The 928 hasn't sold at $5,500 but it's the right price I think. That's the "market" for a "decent" example. At $10,000 it would never sell, at $2,500 it would sell in a minute. After 20 years of doing this, you know what a 1980 Porsche 928 is worth, you just do. Wouldn't matter if it were on Ebay or the daily newspaper or an Internet ad. That's about what it's going to bring, give or take a little. Ebay is actually fine for helping in the setting market prices, because, as you say, they are real people offering real dollars (most of the time anyway). But, and this is a very large but---Ebay is a good market indicator as long as you take a large enough sampling. If one buyer overpays for an RX-7 that doesn't mean the market value is now higher for old RX-7s. All it means is (and this is common sense) an exceptional example of something, an "extra-ordinary" example, will bring a price higher than usual market. It's sound somewhat implausible to think that with a large number of spirited bidders, a car could be a "steal". If you think about it, the only way to "steal" something at an auction is if everyone else is asleep. This happens sometimes in real live auctions but on Ebay, it's hard for a really good car to go completely unnoticed for 7 days. All in all, I'd say you pay more for comparable merchandise on Ebay than you would shopping on your own, either initially or in having to invest more money in your Ebay purchase than you planned. Perhaps one reason you pay more is that everybody finds the same car at the same time. There is no "discovery" by which you can make a killing. |
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oh, i've see people paying more on ebay all the time for things they could get anywhere for less if they just look around. But we're talking about those types of things you usually can't get by opening the paper or driving around your immediate area. next time i spot something that i think "slipped through the cracks" i'll try to remember to post it here (after the auction, of course ... or after I buy it  ).
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I look at eBay all the time for cars...71-72 Eldorado and 95-02 Eldorado. I would be hard pressed to buy sight unseen and car untouched. I did have an out-of-state car buying experience, and it's pricy. Last fall I bought a '72 Eldorado in Dallas on an ad that appeared in cars.com (see pre 1981 cars listed). Cars.com is a compendium of newspaper ads nationwide. So this too can be excellent tool for searching for a specific car offered for sale at specific price...not in competitive bidding. I flew Denver to Dallas to buy the car after agreeing to a specific price. I had chanced on a very affordable flight. But cost in time, hotel, meals and risk of the car not being what was described was considerable. I came away fairly happy. I have bought a number of small car-related items off eBay with no trouble. |
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| yes, please, gbrozen, post anything that you think might have been a bargain on Ebay---that would be interesting to talk about and discuss what might have caused that to happen. | |
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