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Edmunds Pricing & TMV

114 messages,  Last post on Nov 12, 2009 at 10:44 AM

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#41 of 114
Reading a Dealers Invoice by tmhbuyer
May 30, 2005 (10:08 am)
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Can someone please help me understand what all the numbers and accronyms mean on a dealers invocie?
And, how do you know if you have a "real" invoice and not a fake one?
#42 of 114
Invoice by mirth
May 31, 2005 (10:35 am)
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If the price of the options on the invoice match Edmunds, then it's a "real" invoice.
 
The dealer's invoice might contain advertising, etc. costs charged to them by the manufacturer and/or the regional consolidator (I'm thinking Toyota here). Edmunds and KBB will not show that because it varies immensely from place to place.
 
As far as the acronyms go, Edmunds has them in their invoice so look them up. KBB has them too.
#43 of 114
Question reliability of price data by pa_fisherman
Jul 23, 2006 (4:36 am)
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Recent car buying experiences have caused me to question the reliability of the data used by Edmunds, NADA, Black Book and others to produce TMV, etc (that is if I understand the source of their data). To explain ... I have noticed that each time I have negotiated a price on a trade-in deal, the price adjustment is always placed on the used car trade in value instead of as a reduction to the one being purchased. For example ... I trade in a 12 year old worn out sedan with 160k miles. Not worth a whole lot, so I expect $500 to $1,000, and this is consistent with reported trade-in values. It's also consistent with the dealers first offer. We start negotiating, and when the deal is done, I negotiate $2k off the price. When the paperwork is printed, the used car trade in value is suddenly $3k, and the price of the car being purchased is sticker.
 
To me, this does 3 things. First, it causes the database of car sales maintained by the State to be misstated. Second, it gives the Used Car dealer "paperwork" they can use against the guy the comes in to buy the trade-in to show that they "have $3k" in the car. And lastly, it causes the value estimates produced by Edmunds and others to be misstated with respect to what "people are paying in my area".
 
This would be no fault of Edmunds or the other value providing sources, they can only estimate from the info. that is available for them to gather.
 
Thoughts on this question / concern?
#44 of 114
Re: Question reliability of price data [pa_fisherman] by bowulf
Jul 23, 2006 (9:46 am)
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Replying to: pa_fisherman (Jul 23, 2006 4:36 am)

I had the same experience recently in purchasing my new Hyundai. Rather than negogiate off the sticker price, they negogiated up on the trade-in value. In the end, I was about $2500 up from what TMV said about trade-in on old the minivan, but I was still paying MSRP. I equated it in my head to paying about $300 over invoice, but of course, I would be one who notoriously "paid sticket for my vehicle" according to the books.
 
If there were no tradein, the dealer presumably would only work off the sticker price. Could my purchase skew data -- probably, but at least in my case, I believed I got a good deal. Perhaps, Edmunds only records straight-up sales rather than sales distorted with trade-ins.
#45 of 114
Re: Question reliability of price data [pa_fisherman] by jmonroe
Jul 23, 2006 (10:46 am)
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Replying to: pa_fisherman (Jul 23, 2006 4:36 am)

Recent car buying experiences have caused me to question the reliability of the data used by Edmunds, NADA, Black Book and others to produce TMV, etc
 
I also questioned the accuracy of the TMV and it created quite a stir among the posters on forum " PURCHASING STRATEGIES - QUESTIONS & SUCCESS STORIES" post #2027. Since you are fairly new to Edmunds you might want to do a little reading. It gets old and goes around a couple times but you'll get the idea.
 
I'm also from PA, maybe there is something in the air or the water that makes us skeptical.
 
Happy reading,
 
jmonroe
#46 of 114
Re: Question reliability of price data [pa_fisherman] by sc00bs
Jul 23, 2006 (10:56 am)
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Replying to: pa_fisherman (Jul 23, 2006 4:36 am)

Personally as a consumer if I negotiated the price of the new car at 12,000 and then they offered me $1,000 on my trade I would insist that the paperwork reflected that. We all know that whatever reason they do that for is for their benefit not yours.
 
Second, I often times wonder about Edmunds in regards to private party sales. I know many many people who lie about the purchase price so they can get a tax break.
 
Also, I have often wondered how dealer auctions sales play into the prices listed on Edmunds. What about ebay sales, I assume they are considered what exactly, private or dealer because BOTH sell there.
#47 of 114
Edmunds TMV by british_rover
Jul 23, 2006 (1:42 pm)
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We are the only Rover dealer for sixity miles in two directions and a 100 something miles in the other two directions.
 
If you put in our zip code the TMV price you get is not a reflection of our transaction prices at all.
#48 of 114
Re: Edmunds TMV [british_rover] by roundtrip
Jul 23, 2006 (1:51 pm)
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Replying to: british_rover (Jul 23, 2006 1:42 pm)

Soooo....
Is the Edmund's TMV below or above your selling prices?
#49 of 114
Re: Edmunds TMV [roundtrip] by british_rover
Jul 23, 2006 (2:00 pm)
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Replying to: roundtrip (Jul 23, 2006 1:51 pm)

Very much below by thousands of dollars. And then when you think that TMV is supposed to be the average price so there should be some below that level that makes it even more unrealistic.

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