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Smart Shopper Importing Car into Canada from US
4505 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2009 at 11:38 PM
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Replying to: plesome (Mar 21, 2006 9:20 am) the vehicle in Mich. you would have to pay sales tax. It don't work that way in NY ! Call Mich. DMV direct and ask................ Ask about a temp. plate too or use a dealer plate.
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Replying to: plesome (Mar 21, 2006 9:20 am) That being said, to get the car across the border, you will need to first have US customs verify that the car has not been stolen, etc. before allowing it to cross. (This is why you need to fax the paperwork a few days in advance of your crossing, so that US officials can run the appropriate checks.) Canadian customs will not let you import the car unless you present this paperwork from US officials. Re: taking delivery in Ontario or elsewhere in Canada, I would guess -- and this is just a guess -- that it would be difficult to find a dealer who would actually deliver the car to Canada, because the dealership would probably require export licenses, etc.. But rather than worry about it, you could simply ask each dealer whether they can export the car across the border for you, and find out for yourself how easy or difficult this might be. Not sure if this would work, but to avoid the tax, I'd research the possibility of taking delivery in another nearby state, such as Ohio or Indiana, to see if you can avoid the Michigan sales tax. I would research the DMV websites of these other states to see what their rules are re: registration, sales tax rules for cars not being registered in that state, etc. as a possible loophole that might help you to solve your tax problem. But whether this will work, I don't know. |
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Replying to: geo9 (Mar 21, 2006 10:02 am) |
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Hi, When you finally sort things out, could you post your experience. I am also thinking about doing the same but in few months. regards, |
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I am also looking to purchase a new vehicle in the States and bring it across the border. I know the process itself is really quite simple as I just completed it for a new travel trailer I just bought in January of this year. For a travel trailer (which is classified as a vehicle the same as a car), When you cross the border you pay the GST and a fee of about $209 (regardless of the value of the vehicle)and fill out a form 1. You will need a form from the mfg. stating there are no outstanding recalls on the vehicle. Once the vehicle is in Canada you bring it to an inspection station (all Canadian Tires, no cost). They will check for compliance with Canadian standards. A few weeks later you will receive from RIV a letter and a sticker for the vehicle. You can now register the vehicle and pay the PST. Easy and thats it . The only difference that I know of for a motor vehicle is that you have to fax the American Customs 3 days before exporting the vehicle. (who knows why?) My question which I have read conflicting information on is: Can I buy a new car from an American dealer who knows that I am a Canadian. I will have to tell him in order to avoid paying the state sales tax. All exports are sales tax exempt. I DID NOT have to pay sales tax on my travel trailer which I bought from a company in Ohio. Does anybody have a difinative answer or know where I can get it . I tried calling a couple of American dealers and they said they would look into it but have not gotten back to me. If I get this information and if it is positive and I do buy the vehicle I want, I will make a concerted effort to post all my experiences here. Believe me, importing the trailer was a breeze and I saved about $9,5000 plus the GST and the PST I would have paid on the difference. It was well worth the effort. Thanks Mike |
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If you're reading this you're probably already burdened with too much information, well aware of the potential savings, but confounded in procedure and now constipated in the decision. You may have been told that what you are proposing is the acquisition of a “grey-market” vehicle - it is not. Refer to the CBSA website for definition of grey market and you will find that the proposition conforms with the intent of the free trade pact (NAFTA) and is perfectly lawful. To date however, North American dealers (NADA and CADA) have successfully lobbied manufacturers to impose burdens upon consumers and even dealers who venture into this area. If you have not done it, you have to do some reading and consulting first. Reference the following websites and call them, as well as contact your potential U.S. dealer. • http://www.riv.ca/english/html/how_to_import.html (*When referring to the list of admissible vehicles be cognizant that vans and SUV’s are classified as multi-purpose passenger vehicles) • http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/rc4140/rc4140-05e.pdf • http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cm/d19-12-1/d19-12-1-01-e.html#legislation • http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/export/export_docs/motor_vehicle.xml In summary you must: 1. Determine the warranty ramifications - consult with the Canadian arm of your vehicle manufacturer and outline your scenario (they may chose not to honor it for the first six months or more however I believe Safety recalls have to be honored) 2. Notify U.S. Customs and Border Protection at your port of export and for that matter Canada Border Services Agency (Customs) at your port of import one week in advance of your purchase 3. To save yourself aggravation and qualify for the greatest discount insist on full purchase from the U.S. dealer (no U.S. financing required). If you need and qualify for a new car loan arrange it in Canada. Disclose what you are intending to do to your bank or trust. Confirm the logistics involved in wiring the funds (EFT) from your bank to it’s correspondent bank in the U.S. You want to be sure that everything is in order prior to handing over your funds to the U.S. Dealer. 4. Pay RIV fee ($209 all Provinces except Quebec which is $224) - Arrange CTC inspection within 45 days of import 5. Have the U.S. dealer provide a Letter of Compliance or recall clearance letter. It states whether or not there are any outstanding safety defects on your vehicle and recalled by the manufacturer. The recall letter must come from either the manufacturers head office or authorized American dealer (not re-seller). Contact the U.S. head office of the manufacturer ask if the dealer can issue the same. RIV will only accept a letter is on company letterhead with the manufacturers logo. U.S. dealerships must include address as well as the manager's name and signature. The VIN (17 digit vehicle identification number) must be included in the letter. 6. You will find that generally for an admissible new vehicle to pass inspection, we need: a. Daytime running lights (DRL’s) [Not an issue with current model GM’s. DRL’s should be programmable by any reputable service department of most manufacturers. Arrange it with your US Dealer service dept prior to purchase] b. Metric Speedometer [Metric may already exist on most speedometers. If not, changing it at a Canadian dealer may only cost about $300.00 (they have to input the correct odometer reading pursuant to the Excise Act). Another alternative to pass inspection is “stickers” on your speedometer - Contact the RIV to confirm]. 7. Pay GST (7%) and appropriate PST or HST in Atlantic Canada at the port of entry - reference the Bank of Canada for the foreign exchange rate on the date of sale. 8. There is no duty if your vehicle originated in Canada or the United States. 9. There will be $100 excise tax if the vehicle has air conditioning 10. If they are particularly diligent, you may have to pay CBSA addtionally imposed excise taxes. If your passenger car weighs more than 2,007 kilograms or 4,425 pounds. Multi-purpose vehicles (vans and SUV’s) and station wagons have a greater weight allowance, 2268 kilograms or 5000 lbs. This fee is scaled in increments of 15 Kg but the most you may pay would be about $300 +/- for something as big as a Chevrolet Suburban. Besides those listed above, the websites listed below may be particularly helpful prior to making any future decisions. I just happened across the NAATA.org website today. I have not used their service but understand their mandate is to facilitate the purchase and sale of cross-border vehicles. I question the altruistic intent of a not-for-profit association of vehicle dealers that import and export vehicles across international borders because it seems counter-intuitive to the establishment of an enterprise. The NAATA website does however appear geared to collecting annual fees for membership to full service (typically dealers... I wonder if any Candian dealer exist who will help?) and associates (typically vehicle industry organizations, i.e. freight, customs brokers, and money service businesses for foreign exchange...). So, other than collection membership fees (which are clearly stated), NAATA does not appear to have a hidden agenda. As previously mentioned, I have not used their services and do not know if there is fee to consumer but presume there is not. I anticipate the advantage to NAATA “members” (dealers and broker)is derived in potential business from consumers like you and I, which generates an ethical debate about the true intent of a not-for-profit association. Mission statement aside, my research has uncovered that Brian Osler, the president of NAATA is a lawyer in Ontario, steeped in cross-border vehicle issues and appears to advocate the intent of NAFTA. • http://www.naata.org/ • http://www.naata.org/pdfs/Rip_Off_USA.pdf • http://www.automotivedigest.com/view_art.asp?articlesID=6682 • http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020206-1.htm • http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/020214-1.htm • http://www.lsuc.on.ca/public/a/member-directory/ Good luck, Canucknuckled
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Replying to: canucknuckled (Mar 25, 2006 7:05 pm) FYI - for those living in southern Ontario, I spoke with a dealer in New York state that said they are not required to collect state taxes. All they would do is charge us a fee for a thirty day temporary vehicle permit which we could use to drive to Ontario and register the vehicle. Michigan has different rules so it appears to be better to purchase from New York State. Thanks again, plesome |
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Replying to: canucknuckled (Mar 25, 2006 7:05 pm) 2. Notify U.S. Customs and Border Protection at your port of export and for that matter Canada Border Services Agency (Customs) at your port of import one week in advance of your purchase 3. To save yourself aggravation and qualify for the greatest discount insist on full purchase from the U.S. dealer (no U.S. financing required). If you need and qualify for a new car loan arrange it in Canada. Disclose what you are intending to do to your bank or trust. Confirm the logistics involved in wiring the funds (EFT) from your bank to it’s correspondent bank in the U.S. You want to be sure that everything is in order prior to handing over your funds to the U.S. Dealer. 4. Pay RIV fee ($209 all Provinces except Quebec which is $224) - Arrange CTC inspection within 45 days of import 5. Have the U.S. dealer provide a Letter of Compliance or recall clearance letter. It states whether or not there are any outstanding safety defects on your vehicle and recalled by the manufacturer. The recall letter must come from either the manufacturers head office or authorized American dealer (not re-seller). Contact the U.S. head office of the manufacturer ask if the dealer can issue the same. RIV will only accept a letter is on company letterhead with the manufacturers logo. U.S. dealerships must include address as well as the manager's name and signature. The VIN (17 digit vehicle identification number) must be included in the letter. 6. You will find that generally for an admissible new vehicle to pass inspection, we need: a. Daytime running lights (DRL’s) [Not an issue with current model GM’s. DRL’s should be programmable by any reputable service department of most manufacturers. Arrange it with your US Dealer service dept prior to purchase] b. Metric Speedometer [Metric may already exist on most speedometers. If not, changing it at a Canadian dealer may only cost about $300.00 (they have to input the correct odometer reading pursuant to the Excise Act). Another alternative to pass inspection is “stickers” on your speedometer - Contact the RIV to confirm]. 7. Pay GST (7%) and appropriate PST or HST in Atlantic Canada at the port of entry - reference the Bank of Canada for the foreign exchange rate on the date of sale. 8. There is no duty if your vehicle originated in Canada or the United States. 9. There will be $100 excise tax if the vehicle has air conditioning 10. If they are particularly diligent, you may have to pay CBSA addtionally imposed excise taxes. If your passenger car weighs more than 2,007 kilograms or 4,425 pounds. Multi-purpose vehicles (vans and SUV’s) and station wagons have a greater weight allowance, 2268 kilograms or 5000 lbs. This fee is scaled in increments of 15 Kg but the most you may pay would be about $300 +/- for something as big as a Chevrolet Suburban. That's pretty much what my research turned up as well. I'll just add a few points: -Most cars make the RIV list, but not all, so do be sure that yours is on it. While most cars make it, some would be very costly or next to impossible to get into compliance. -Tethers for child seats can be an issue for some cars. Again, most cars will make the grade, but some won't. The RIV list should help with this. -Notifying the US port of exit by fax is essential, but a few day's notice may be sufficient. I'd double check this on your own, don't take my word for it. -The metric speedometer shouldn't be issue for most cars, because US speedometers almost always have metric markings as a secondary marking, which seem to be good enough. -For the odometer, a sticker that makes it clear that the reading is in miles and that provides a math conversion formula (if I'm not mistaken, this is provided by Canadian Tire) might be enough, but double check this. If you have a digital odometer that can flipped between standard and metric, then obviously you need not do anything. -You might also require bilingual stickers for your airbags, safety equipment, etc. If the warning labels on the passenger visor are not in French, a bilingual sticker is required. (Sorry, I don't have more details about where you get the conversion stickers, or what happens if you don't.) Again, the real equipment issues seem to be focused on DRL's, child tethers, the odometer sticker and bilingual markings. The fax to US customs is a must, as is the "recall letter". Warranties can also be an issue, depending upon the brand, so be careful. Changing gauge clusters should not be necessary for virtually any car. (If any of this is mistaken, feel free to correct it.) |
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Hi, I was told by a Michigan GM dealer that you cannot buy a "New & Untitled" vehicle in the U.S. and import it into Canada. But you can bring a "Used" 2006 with 500 miles on it for example from the U.S. into Canada. Also somebody else told me that the GM warranty on a new imported vehicle would kick in after 6 months regards,
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Replying to: bota (Mar 28, 2006 6:40 am) In response to your last point first, I have received the same response from Canadian GM dealers. I suggest you: 1. Email GM Corp. USA (customer service), outline your (Canadian resident) intent to purchase a GM vehicle from a U.S. GM dealer and lawfully import it into Canada. Specifically ask about the warranty ramifications. If you happen to obtain a direct and clear answer, save it. I anticipate it will be worded in such a way that they will refer you to one of their many Canadian dealers in your area…. Should that be the case, reply to them and ask if you (Canadian) are restrained from commerce with U.S. division of their retailers /dealers. Ask if their warranty contracts are transferable between Canada and the U.S. I believe the contracts (GM and GM Canada) mirror each other, so why would the location of vehicle operation void contract, Alaska’s environment is every bit as hostile as any Canadian environment. 2. Email GM Canada (customer service) outlining the same scenario and again save the response. It may take a couple of requests to obtain adequate responses. 3. You may want to go so far as contacting the state finance department and Better Business Bureau to ascertain if you are prohibited from new product purchase. 4. Communicate through a recordable medium like the Internet or facsimile rather than telephone since “getting it in writing” is always better than taking someone’s word if you expect the issue to be revisited. I suppose if you anticipate an adversarial relationship at the onset, you should ask yourself why you want to do business with that manufacturer / dealer. 5. At risk of sounding like an advocate for it, the NAATA website mentioned in my previous posting helps to explain this. (X-ref: http://www.naata.org/new%20files/faqs.html). In response to your first point, the dealer is wrong. I have heard similar examples however the pre-owned vehicle had to be “titled” six months prior or have at least 7,500 Miles (16,100 Km) to ensure warranty coverage. I suppose as a merchant, the dealer may or may not sell any of his/her products to whoever he/she chooses, provided he/she does not contravene the law (municipal, state/province, federal) and does not engage in discriminatory practices. This is an area of civil law involving chattel (moveable property) and contracts. What does the retailer care who the purchaser is? It should be a mutual agreement wherein you offer to provide him/her consideration (negotiated full purchase price) and he/she provides the product c/w warranty and you assume title or ownership. Provided the dealership is not being used by the new car purchaser as a conduit to launder proceeds of crime and proper protocols are followed, transfer of title or ownership could be easily arranged. Unless of course, he/she fears sanction or exclusion from GM Corp., which I believe would be contrary to the antitrust legislation (Competition Act in Canada or Sherman Act in U.S.A.). BTW. A colleague (Canadian resident) recently attempted to negotiate the purchase a new Mercedes in the US because Daimler Chrysler Canada dealers were not willing to match or even approach US purchase prices (factoring USD/ CAD exchange). His experience was that no Daimler Chrysler US dealers would sell “new” to him so he gave up and resorted to the purchase a nearly-new Mercedes in the US. FYI, I bring to your attention a recent article dated March 20, 2006, in Automotive News, regarding the antitrust settlement by Toyota Corp. Link to: • http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060320/SUB/60317060/1003/BR- EAKING&refsect=BREAKING Antitrust law in the U.S. is legislated in the Sherman Act. Link to: • http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/foia/divisionmanual/ch2.htm I am not aware of any similar class action lawsuits in Canada at this time but believe such violations may be in contravention of the Competition Act. Link to: • http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-34/index.html Good Luck and keep us posted, Canucknuckled Socala4, thanks for filling in the voids, especially the bilingual (French/English) airbag warning stickers for the visor. I guess RIV can provide more details if necessary. Readers may choose to stop here, the following are just ramblings. For several reasons automakers have severed their operations into national divisions (i.e. GM Canada and GM USA) and therefore practices of one division may not necessarily binding in another. From a consumers perspective, fluctuating currency exchange rates between nations (Canada and US in this case), globalization, and rapid growth in emergence of a medium (Internet) where reliable information is accessible and readily exchanged has dramatically impacted the automobile industry. Although there are significant national economic repercussions (jobs, government subsidies, ect…) our respective federal governments are signatories to a pact that allows cross-border vehicle shopping, provided there is adherence to the respective federal, state/province, and municipal statutes. Thus, oligopolies like the automobile industry may not tacitly collude to restrict distribution to consumers based upon geographic origin. In my opinion such a practice would be construed as discriminatory and contrary to antitrust legislation. Consumers are also aware that manufacturers and distributors are lawfully afforded regional incentive programs that may favor certain locales in an effort to “stabilize the market” or balance inventory. In fairness, manufacturers (automakers) and their distributors (dealers) are engaged in enterprise to enjoy the benefit of profits (margin) for themselves and their stockholders. Auto producers wholesale their products to dealer retailers who provide the product/service to us, the consumer/ client at a negotiated price. Increased product demand may diminish supply and warrant a justified price increase in a capitalist free market economy, so be it. What these multi-national corporations and their distributors must understand is that with the proliferation of the internet (information sharing), savvy consumers are also participating in the global economy and trans-border movement of goods and services is no longer their exclusive domain. Consumers are willing to go the extra mile (or Kilometer in Canada) to enjoy fair deal. Don’t construe this as a militant stance as I know I’d pay a few extra bucks ($1500.00 CAD is my limit) to contribute to my local economy, defeat the hassle and inconvenience of an extra-territorial purchase but I resent “gouging” at my expense. Surely dealers and manufacturers understand that they are dealing with more educated consumer who wants to pay the lowest possible price and expect reasonably trouble free product function. Canucknucled
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