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Subaru Legacy, Sedan, Wagon
#56 of 95 SOA making a mistake with 2005 Legacy lineup/options
Feb 24, 2004 (12:16 pm)
Just read that the 2005 Legacy will not have the 3.0 liter engine. Also, SOA is not including VDC in the 2.5GT. Those are two glaring mistakes by SOA (and GM?). If this is true I will have to look elsewhere for a car that has AWD, Stability Control, or a 6 banger. When Honda has decided to include ABS/TC/VSA, etc... as a safety measure in ALL their cars starting in '06 why can't SOA provide VDC in the 2.5GT? Go figure...outsmarting themselves out of the higher end market!
#57 of 95 zoomer1
Feb 24, 2004 (12:42 pm)
Why can't Honda include AWD in ALL there cars as a safety measure? Subaru did that in 1996!
#58 of 95 VDC in 2.5 GT
Feb 24, 2004 (12:59 pm)
You are right Honda could include AWD in all of their models but that is not their business model. AWD IS SOA's business model. In addition SOA has VDC in their outbacks. SOA does not need to invent anything and could include VDC in the sedans as a safety, competitive, and marketing strategy. This is actually something that could help them (i.e. don't go to Audi, VW, Infiniti, new Dodge and Chrysler (300 and Magnum), upcoming Ford and Mercury (500)). BTW the RL is rumored to be AWD. The Element, CRV, and Pilot can be had as an AWD...and so on. Only the Accord and Civic are not AWD but remember 4th gen civic wagons were AWD. Prod SOA to include VDC in the 2.5GT....it will be sad if they offer it NEXT year as part of the 3.0R option.
Feb 24, 2004 (2:31 pm)
Actually, I think it was 1995, Dave.
I believe ABS became standard on all Subies in 2002, when the latest generation Impreza came out.
Honda is way, waaaaaaaaay behind and finally committed to catching up - but only after remaining behind for 2 more years to come.
They are in no way the pioneer for safety equipment. Subaru pioneered AWD as standard. VW pioneered side curtain air bags and stability control on cars. Toyota pioneered stability control standard on every SUV (currently, not 2006!).
Honda remains behind the curve and hasn't pioneered squat in terms of safety features. What's amazing is their PR spin!
Having said that, I've long been asking for better availability of VDC. Like Toyota has already done with VSC.
#60 of 95 Nope juice
Feb 24, 2004 (3:26 pm)
1995 had FWD, FWD w/ TCS and AWD.
Technically it was 1997 because in 1996 you could special order a FWD L sedan or wagon but I believe that was fleet sales only.
zoomer1 - You can ALWAYS find something that another car has standard that isn't offered on the car that you desire. It's all about compromises. FYI - AWD isn't available (or even an option) on the Insight, Odyssey or S2000 either.
And why doesn't Honda still offer an Accord or Civic wagon? After all Subaru still offers wagon versions of their compact and midsize cars. But of course that's Subaru's business model.
I do agree that it would be nice to have VDC standard on all Subarus. When Subaru determines it's necessary, they'll add it.
Feb 24, 2004 (7:30 pm)
I should know better than to challenge our very own encyclopedia...
Feb 25, 2004 (7:22 am)
I am assuming VDC is some kind of vehicle stability control system?? does that mean there is no traction control?? just to full blown vehicle stability control? or are the two the same? I am hoping since there is an encyclopedia in this thing I can get the answer!
what does VDC stand for?
#63 of 95 Vehicle Dynamics Control
Feb 25, 2004 (7:50 am)
It's a combination stability control and traction control (AWD management, braking management and engine management).
Feb 25, 2004 (10:07 am)
Many stability control systems have brand names to try to distinguish themselves.
For instance, Toyota has VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) now, but people don't like it much, so for next year it's been redeveloped and will have a new name, VDM (Vehicle Dynamics Management?) I think.
VDC by Subaru includes stability control, traction control (included with every stability control system I believe), and VTD AWD with a 45/55 rear bias power split.
When they are nicely integrated like Subaru has done, the ABS and AWD work in harmony together.
Here is a full PDF if you wanted to read about Subaru's system:
But to summarize, some advantages over competitors' system includes the fact that it can send 100% of power to either axle, one single wheel actually, while Audi's is limited to 67% per axle. Also, the system is completely pro-active, and adjust the power split before slippage occurs. Audi's system is quick reacting, but it's still reactive. Toyota's VSC was deemed slow to react as well as too intrusive, which is why they bagged it.
#65 of 95 VDC: How much difference does it make - really? More important than AWD?
Feb 25, 2004 (10:37 am)
My 95 Legacy has AWD - I felt safe. It transferred power "from the wheels that slip to the wheels that grip." But now, what do I really need: AWD, AWD + VDT, AWD + VTD + VDC. What's next, M-O-U-S-E? What's right 4UNMe? Part of the "Beauty of All Wheel Drive" was not having to think about it. Let's see what AWD systems Subaru offers:
Manual Transmission: viscous-coupling locking center differential to distribute the power 50/50 front to rear.
4-spd Auto: electronically managed continuously variable transfer clutch to actively control power distribution in response to driving conditions
5-spd Auto: Variable Torque Distribution (VTD). A planetary center differential works with an electronically controlled continuously variable hydraulic transfer clutch to manage power distribution
Outback 3.0r VDC Limited: Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC), an advanced stability system that controls VTD operation and integrates an electronic four-wheel traction control system
All of this stuff sounds like great technology but how much difference does it really make? In New Zealand, where the Legacy 2.5i won AA Autocar's Car of the Year Award: http://www.subaru.co.nz/news/index.html?id=606, they said that Subaru’s basic AWD is just fine (see excerpt):
"Unlike the Accord and 350Z, the Legacy has no traction or stability control…nor does it need any. It’s a complete package just as it comes, an all-wheel-driving machine that eschews gizmos simply because it has the most physical grip of any new car released in 2003."
Don't get me wrong, I love technology but I get worried when it starts sounding like that old Saturday Night Live parody about the "Triple-Trac" razor (when twin blades were hot). "The first blade pulls the whisker away from your face so the 2nd blade could then pull it out further so that the 3rd blade...". "Why do we do this?" Pause. "Because you'll believe anything!" Then the triple blade became a reality and last year Schick introduced the "Quattro" with 4 "precisely synchronized blades." Why - because we'll believe anything!
So, come on, if all this stuff is so important that it really makes a difference to the safety of its drivers, Subaru should just put it on all their cars - standard. I'd like to see some side/by-side tests of Subaru’s various AWD offerings to see if there's really any significant difference in handling and performance. Or does all this just drive up the price without improving the drive?