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Subaru Legacy, Sedan, Wagon
Aug 28, 2003 (9:34 am)
The rumor mill is starting to really ramp up. Now I won't give away all details, but I am hearing a 2.5GT with 250hp and plenty of torque. It is also said to very potentially carry a 6MT (probably for less warranty claims because of driver carelessness) as well as the 5EAT.
The word on the street is that they are still researching potential pricing on this matter. I would like to know where everyone sits on this. Now, I do know that everyone would like these for free, but try to be reasonable.
-BASE includes: Cloth Interior, Manually-Adjusting Seats, No Sunroof, Manual Transmission, 6-Disc CD Changer w/ current premium sound (NOT Macintosh.)
*BASE Sedan GT: 25,595-25,995
*BASE Wagon GT: 25,995-26,395
Limited or Premium Packages include: Power Leather Seating, Sunroof, Macintosh Audio
*Sedan GT: 26,995-27,495
*Wagon GT: 27,395-27,995
That would price these VERY competitively and rather reasonable. Taking away the luxury amenities (leather, power seats, etc.) for those that just want the sport and room should allow the Legacy to drop right into the given slots with the major upgrades and the cost difference. I would like to say I would love a base wagon in Silver but can't really afford to go above $26,000. I would settle for a sedan if need be. Anything significantly higher and I think they would be marketing themselves out of their price range. At this pricing, I think these vehicles would sell like hotcakes. Even if the BASE-type model was available only by order only, it would be well worth it for Subaru in my opinion.
Aug 28, 2003 (1:21 pm)
Either your base price is too high or the loaded price is too low. I'm guessing it could be a little of both. The current GT w/ leather and sunroof is $25,100 which is pretty maxed out except for the McIntosh. The price difference between NA and turbo models of Impreza (RS to WRX) is $4500 and on the Forester (XS to XT) about $1800 so I can settle on a $2000-2500 increase. Add in the McIntosh and the sedan will definitely break the $27,000 mark. I am hoping to see the most expensive model ending about $31,000 like the Outback VDC ($32,500 for wagon w/ dual sunroof). One thing that could cause an additional increase is the potential higher price of the Sportshift automatic.
Basically, I think that a loaded Legacy needs to come in at the base price of a G35. If we're talking a G35 AWD, that will probably be about $32,000. Premium (sunroof, Bose, seat memory, power passenger, reclining rear seat, dual zone climate, etc.) is another $3200. If the Legacy doesn't hit this price, I may have a really hard time justifying the Subaru over an Infiniti.
Aug 29, 2003 (12:52 pm)
L: delete moonroof, but keep the price the same with a slight boost in power, bigger interior, and a few extra niceties
GT: 2.5 turbo engine substitute heated leather seats, keep pricing close to current car, maybe $500 higher. That's what I would want.
GT Limited: equipped like the current 2.5GT, just $2000 more for the turbo.
The current 2.5GT doesn't sell in significant volumes largely due to the price/performance. Meanwhile the L/SE is HOT and sells well, as a great value.
Aug 29, 2003 (9:16 pm)
Sorry, would have responded back a little sooner, been a little busy.
I don't think the pricing I have up there is too far out on a limb. They used to market two varieties, a GT and GT Limited as Ateixeira mentioned. But I do see room in that line-up for yet another model. 6 models (assuming wagon and sedans of each trim) would be about minimal, right now the Outbacks are finally down to 8 (10 in 2003) models. (I just happened to look at the Subaru site which must have been updated for 2004 Legacy and Outback models with the Legacy now bearing 2 models each in Sedan/Wagon. I also notice the color selection has been updated too. Just looking over the 2004 selection, looks like they're moving in the right direction. I can see what they mean by upscale, doesn't look too significant, but none-the-less, a good change.
Back to models, as looking at the current GT Sedan and Wagon priced at 25,095 and 25,995 respectively, there is some room to play with. I don't know how many people over here frequent NASIOC and here, but on NASIOC a couple of months back there was a huge debate brewing, many want the option of opting out of leather and power seats to make way for a better price and that is something many enthusiasts don't want. We've been crying for such a car. Making those components (cloth interior, perhaps manual adjusting seats if some of us are lucky), as an optional order-only delete Premium Seating would work fine. This wouldn't be a significant amount of work for SOA and would constitute for a small number of sales, none-the-less still sales. Other contries can have their GT this way, why can't the largest market on the planet as well? With the currently over-inflated GT pricing, loss of leather, the GT with turbo and performance upgrades over current could fall into the prcing slot perfectly. The GT Wagon may go above the pricing slot by a marginal amount though.
Here is how I see the models:
Legacy S Sedan (signify 'Sport') similar to L Anniv. - $20,995
Legacy S Wagon (signify 'Sport') similar to L Anniv. - $21,895
Legacy ST Sedan ('Sport Touring') using 04 GT Brakes/ Rear LSD/ 2.5L AVCS engine w/ 200/200 and sporty suspension - $22,495
Legacy ST Wagon ('Sport Touring') using 04 GT Brakes/ Rear LSD/ 2.5L AVCS engine w/ 200/200 and sporty suspension - $23,395
Legacy GT Sedan ('Grand Touring') with as mentioned but in cloth, manual seats - $25,595-25,995
Legacy GT Wagon ('Grand Touring') with as mentioned but in cloth, manual seats - $25,995-26,395
Legacy GT Limited models include: Power Leather Heated Seats, Macintosh Audio, Security Pack - $add 1,500-2,000
As looking at current line-up, moonroofs are standard and good for the up-scale image. I don't think this increadibly unreasonable. Making a line of performance suspension, brake, drivetrain, and performance parts available that STi makes available in Japan would make these models still affordable if optioned out further for performance enhancements if Subaru would decide to. Also, being the competition of V6 models to the GT being slightly priced below those levels would make these models rather available and a worthy alternative to those 'Plain Jane' models. I really don't think this is too large a line-up.
PPower, I think we can leave the $30k+ range for a future STi model. Pricing these models in this range would make them sell like hotcakes. In this market, it's all about affordability and value, pricing in the $30k range bar STi models and top of the line Outback models is rediculous IMHO. You're not adding that significant a package to raise the price $5,000. The current GT I would value at $1,500 less than it really costs, that's about halfway priced between a L Anniversary model and a GT, that's about how much better a GT is than an L Anniv. BTW, the Forester XT in semi comparable form to what I'd be looking for in the interior with the chassis changes and slightly upgrade engine comes in $1,000 below my suggested base Legacy GT pricing. That's just some food for thought.
Anyone think my suggested ST model is well placed and a good idea? I find it a good alternative to a GT for those who can't quite afford the turbo or don't want one.
Okay, fire away.
#6 of 95 ST works for me
Aug 30, 2003 (7:12 pm)
I don't need a turbo or an H-6 but would welcome a bump in HP on the H-4. 190 or 200 HP (or even 180-185, since the new gen will be lighter) on 87 octane would work for me. I'd like an Outback ST wagon w/ 5EAT / VTD & single moonroof please.
Sep 01, 2003 (10:21 pm)
I would just like to add that I wish that the moonroof was optional. Taller drivers don't want it, and it is an expensive piece that raises up the price. While Subaru is trying to move upscale/premium, they still are the new kids on the block and have to focus on their price. No moonroof and no power/leather seats like you mention would help out with that. Cross our fingers.
Sep 02, 2003 (5:15 am)
Short drivers (like me!) don't necessarily want it either. I've had several cars with them, and I almost never open them, or derive any pleasure from them. On my most recent vehicle, I specifically requested that the salesman find me a car without a roof as I wasn't prepared to pay money for that feature.
Sep 02, 2003 (7:08 am)
ST would interest me if they could tune it to run on 87 octane. That might be tough, though.
Maybe a moonroof could be a stand-alone option. Leather too.
Things like HIDs and Navigation could be SPT parts.
Sep 02, 2003 (11:54 am)
I think we're more into options than Subaru is. If it was up to me, these are some of the things I would have standard, and as options.
-One-touch all windows down (not just drivers door), or selectable in single, double or 4 windows via a toggle like the power mirror toggle
-60/40 split-folding rear seat on ALL sedans and wagons
-Good, solid silky-smooth short throw shifter for all MT sport models
-Standard Security Package Upgrade on turbo/H6 models
-Delete option for power-leather seats to manually-adjusting cloth seats (option of STi bucket seats)
-Single fully operable moonroof (both sedan and wagon) stand-alone or available in package
-Cold weather package (heated seats and mirrors)
-Factory Window Tint
-STi Sports Package: Silicone Intercooler Hoses, Sports ECU (~$300-500) good for maybe 280hp up from 250hp
-STi Brake Package: Stainless Steel Brake Lines, Upgraded Pads (~$500)
-SPT Handling Package: Rear Sway Bar Upgrade, Upgraded Springs, Adjustable Dampeners, Associating Bushings
-STi Front LSD (~$750?)
The biggest thing, make the parts affordable. People will buy them. I've heard Subaru was disgusted when they saw Subaru fans with their WRX's and non-Subaru parts on the cars. It's inevitable, people want a chance to customize their performance vehicles. Subaru can get in on this too, but that have to offer some reasonable parts at reasonable prices. Comfort is one thing, that's easy to offer those options, but catering to enthusiasts is something else. They will always look for areas to improve a car, they just have to know what we're looking for and listen to the customers. That is why SPT/STi parts haven't sold too well over here so far. Not everyone bases their decisions on luxury options.