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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Toyota RAV4 Prices Paid and Buying Experience
2253 messages, Last post on Sep 04, 2008 at 10:52 PM
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I recently have started to read messages on this forum as I prepare to purchase a Rav4 V6 4WD Limited in the eastern PA area. It seems from the postings that I have read thus far that a reasonable amount of dealers will negotiate to dealer invoice price but only a small portion seem to move below that amount. In an economy that seems to receive bad news day after day my thoughts are that the future buyer might have more leverage to negotiate below invoice in order for the dealers to move cars off of the lot. Anyway, I have seen that many of you have used the internet to solicit quotes from dealers in their area. Has this been useful for obtaining good quotes or has it been just a starting point for dealers to begin 'reeling you in'? What has been your approach when soliciting a quote. For example, did you ask them to give you their best deal? Are you willing to sell at dealer invoice? This latter question seems to close the door for further negotiating any lower if the dealer comes back willing to sell the vehicle at invoice. Looking for help with some of the acronyms used in this forum such as TTL and TDA. I assume TTL is tax, title & license. Not sure of the TDA abbreviation. Also, anyone have feedback on ride comparison for the Limited vs. Sport. A work colleague felt that the Sport ride was stiffer than the Limited. I have test driven a Limited and a Mitsubishi Outlander on the same day on a bumpy road and the Outlander was a noticeably stiffer ride. I noticed one comment from a dealer asking a customer as to what constitutes a 'fair profit' Any thoughts on this? I think the approx $700 that the dealer receives back from the maunfacturer is sufficent. This 3% profit seems to be lower than the Consumer Report recommended 4 to 8% 'fair deal' amount. This fair deal amount is also above dealer invoice and many of you have 'struck deals' at dealer invoice or less. All feedback is appreciated. Thnx. |
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Replying to: kriebebw (Jul 16, 2008 7:42 am) Please see my comments earlier on negotiating price. It has been my experience that dealers in my area (CA) will not give good prices over the internet. Most refuse to give actual numbers and just ask you to "come in to discuss". Many of them stop responding to emails once I asked for below invoice prices. By the way, before deciding against the Rav4, I was able to face to face negotiate the price of the Rav4 down to $300 below invoice. Re Rav ride quality: I decided not to buy a Rav4 because of the ride quality/sound/vibration. I tested the limited version and found the ride to be soft enough over big bumps, but over small bumps (washboard type) or cracks, there was a lot of vibration into the cabin and driver's seat. Also there was quite a bit of wind noise. I was really surprised because I previously owned a Camry 10 years ago which was like a Rolls Royce (smoooooth and quiet) on these same types of roads. I bought a Nissan Rogue SL instead. Fair profit: Using "gross profit" % figures really make the dealers sound like they are getting unfairly squeezed, i.e. 3% sounds really tight. But keep in mind that the dealers do not calculate their finances in the traditional buy/sell way. Most, if not all, the cars on a dealer's lot are NOT owned by the dealer. They are just "borrowed" from the car manufacturer. The dealer's "cost" for these cars is based on an interest-type charge based on the value of the car and the amount of time the dealer holds it for. To make a simple example, a dealer's "carrying cost" (i.e. their real out of pocket) on a Rav4 might be around $500 for one specific car. So if they make $300 profit on that car, they have a nice return on investment (60%!). One final comment: My Toyota dealer's sale manager was quite aggressive about claiming I was "asking them to lose money on the car." My response was just to laugh at his face and tell him to "figure it out." Actually I was pretty insulted that he would try to lie to me and tell me they are losing money at $300 below their fake "invoice price". Even though I got him to agree to the price eventually, this may have also influenced my feeling about (not) buying a Rav4. |
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Replying to: thomasw98 (Jul 16, 2008 8:03 am) I am aware of the manufactured sponsored financing $$ which is part of the hidden money. It is in the dealers best interest to get that car off the lot ASAP so that he has the best return on this money allocated for financing. Otherwise; the interest he continues to pay for this car to sit on the lot erodes away his financing allocation. From what I have read, the best scenario for a dealer is to have a customer order a car and take it the day it arrives. That way, he pays essentially no financing and gets to keep the allocated financing money. Curious...how did your negotiations workout on the Rogue? Was it a somewhat ugly process as you seemed to describe on the Rav?
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Replying to: thomasw98 (Jul 16, 2008 8:03 am) Did you also look at the CRV (although I've told it's a "chick" car...I'm a chick so that's ok for me) as I have heard it is also a very soft car like ride. Your impressions? And, did you drive a 4cyl or 6 cyl RAV? Thanks
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Replying to: kriebebw (Jul 16, 2008 8:32 am) (By the way, I really like the Rogue. Horsepower is certainly lacking somewhat, but better that the CRV when considering the lighter weight. I am currently on mile 2200 of a trip up the west coast and so far everything about the car is great. I should probably write a review in the Rogue forum one of these days.) |
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Replying to: ykckby (Jul 17, 2008 10:15 am) I also drove the CRV (these three dealers are located side by said in my area, so comparison is very easy). It does not look like a "chick car" to my eyes...more like a small tank. But maybe the "chick car" reputation is coming from all the soccer moms that are driving the car these days. The CRV pickup (torque and hp) was not as good as the Rogue, but the difference was not extreme. The main problem I had with the CRV was the loud wind noise at highway speeds. It seems to be coming from the left side mirror or maybe the roof rack or door frame or something in that area. Since I was planning on taking my new car on a long trip after a short break-in period, this annoying wind noise really was a big negative for me. The ride/suspension feeling of the CRV and Rogue are similar in my experience. The CRV is larger, so slightly more "big soft boat" feeling whereas the Rogue is a bit more "bouncy". But both are acceptably smooth and vibrations are well isolated. (Maybe we should move this post to a "compare Rav4 with other cars" thread?) |
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Replying to: thomasw98 (Jul 16, 2008 8:03 am) heh heh, no business can survive with this kind of profit margin. You forget the salary for salesman, finance manager, people who wash the car before you test drive, people who details the car, the rent for the place etc..... It is useless to figure what is a "fair" price for a particular car. The price is going to be driven by supply and demand in your local area anyway. One always get the best deal by shopping around and compare price in your local area. Once you did that, then try compare the price to places with a lot of Toyota delear (e.g. S. California) and decide if it is worthwhile to fly out to get the car or not. If the car is really hot, dealer can sell it above MSRP, they will. As long as there are people willing to pay higher price for the same car than you, then you will have to wait. Don't waste your time to figure out if you leave a fair profit for the dealer.. They will not sell you the car if they have to loss money.
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Replying to: topgun7 (Jul 17, 2008 11:30 pm) Thanks for your comments on the dealer profitablility issue. You seemed to confirm my thoughts in that it is vague to understand what is a 'fair' profit for a dealer. I do agree it is about supply and demand on the 'hot' cars and that is where these guys can makea bunch of $$$. I don't believe the Rav4 is in that 'hot' vehicle category. For us near-term buyers, I'm thinking that in our present bad economic times the dealers might be more willing and flexible to make a sale. I guess I will find out in time. BTW, I've been looking for an explanation as to the 'TDA' acronym used in prior posts (2156 from heartgod & 2154 from robomacro). Any idea? |
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Replying to: robomacro (Jun 27, 2008 2:31 pm) I've been looking for an explanation as to the 'TDA' acronym used in prior posts as well as this post. Can you tell me what this terms stands for? Thanks.
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Replying to: kriebebw (Jul 18, 2008 5:52 am) |
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