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You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Toyota RAV4, SUV
#1259 of 4032 Re: RAV4 Limited V6 4x4 Ordered Today (1/22/07) [banjolaya1]
Jan 24, 2007 (10:56 pm)
OH, I understand your viewpoint now; you were thinking the Holdback, ADV, and WFR are included in the DEALER'S INVOICED COST, and Roger's was trying to double dip by ALSO adding them in seperately on top of the $23,337 base cost for a V6 Limited 4x4. That is not the case. But those charges ARE factored in to the RETAIL MSRP of $26,570 for that trim.
Yes, I built the vehicle on Toyota.com to get the total MSRP with options (and the Destination Charge), then added the Documentation and Title Fees to get the final MSRP OTD price, but I did NOT negotiate from that figure. I negotiated from the Wholesale Invoice of $23,337 + the WHOLESALE cost of all my desired options, and the (non-negotiable) Destination Charge. Roger's Motors then tacked on the Holdback, ATD, Fuel, and WFR charges because they were not willing to negotiate those either. SOME dealers might let you haggle at least a percentage of those tacked-on charges away, but NONE of the MANY dealers I contacted here in the Pacific Northwest are willing to do that right now -- not on a V6 4x4 Limited anyway, because the demand for them is still too strong.
There is a small chance that, if I were willing to lock horns with the salesman I'm dealing with, I could have gotten the gas and WFR knocked off my total, but to be honest it just wasn't worth it to me to fight that much, since so many other dealerships I approached weren't even willing to drop more than $500 off RETAIL MSRP. Buying from any one of them would have meant a final OTD price of around $2000 more than I'm getting WITHOUT a fight from Roger's Motors. So I'm happy. And thank's for your input! No apologies necessary.
#1260 of 4032 Pricing confusion plus FightingChance
Jan 25, 2007 (12:36 am)
when figuring out the Out-The-Door price does that already include all the dealer fees and your sales tax in your area or is that added after the OTD...im confused if OTD is the total amount you pay the dealership.
One last thing, i too am looking to buy a RAV4 Limited V6 in South FL without sunroof or 3rd row seats. i wonder if FightingChance really is worth my time and does it take long to study it since i need to buy my car before February? why do they push fax attack? would sending out emails work the same way? Any suggestions is greatly appreciated from all of you! this is my very first post in this site and im nervous and confused lol
#1261 of 4032 Re: Pricing confusion plus FightingChance [firewire]
Jan 25, 2007 (5:13 am)
I chose to just print out some of the prices that have appeared off this forum and asked the salesman if he could match it.
I bought the V6 Sport with sunroof for $24,600 with no problem. IMO this unit is a steal compared to others in it's class-
OTD includes tax, title and lic- That equates to an additional $1800 in Chicago-
Enjoy your Rav- You are going to love it!
#1262 of 4032 Re: Finally Test Drove a Limited V6 - WOW [banjolaya1]
Jan 25, 2007 (5:38 am)
My wife swears we can get a RAV4 for invoice. We're looking at a V6 Limited 4wd, no leather, no 3rd row. Sticker is 29,079. From what I remember, that puts invoice around 26,200. I'm saying there is no way we'll get it for the invoice price. I'm thinking a more realistic goal is invoice + 3%, which would be right at 27,000. My only problem is, this is the ONLY RAV4 with the options/color I want at any of my dealers within 150 miles.
Is 27,000 a realistic goal for this? Or is invoice even worth trying for?
Jan 25, 2007 (7:26 am)
After a week of E-mailing dealers, phone calls, and trips to 4 different dealers I finally bought a 2007, RAV4, Base, 6-cylinder, 4-WD, Pacific Blue, Ash int.,with options of Carpet Floor/Cargo Mat, DT Running Lights, Roof Rack, Tonneau Cover, Tow Prep Package. Window Sticker was $25,689 and I paid $24,000 plus tax, licensing, and a $149 Document Fee (which I had to fight to get down from their normal $349). Being in the "boonies" I will have to drive 130 miles tomorrow to Memphis, Tn. to get it. I know this isn't the hottest price I've seen here at Edmunds but it was the best I could negotiate from any dealer within 200 miles. I also found that the Base Model with 6-cyl. & 4-WD were quite limited in availability, especially without the Moonroof & 3rd. row seats which I didn't want, and in Pacific Blue color which I did want. Most of the smaller dealers I contacted simply wouldn't negotiate more than $500 off Window Price since this car is in such demand. I was also surprised that only about half the dealers I contacted via E-mail even responded to my E-mails requesting info. So, I'm excited about my trip tomorrow and become a fellow RAV4 owner and affectionado! Thanks for all the help and info. I have received from this site.
#1264 of 4032 Out-The-Door Pricing = Final Total Cost?
Jan 25, 2007 (10:27 am)
ty moe for your info. can anyone else confirm the Out-The-Door price is the total price when buying the RAV4 or do you still have to pay Sales Tax, Tag etc. i just would like to get others to confirm this so dealers wont try to pull the wool over my eyes.
anyone used FightingChance to get a better deal? is it worth it and is it a quick study? i need a car very soon and dont want to make a hasty decision while negotiating! thanks for your replies!
#1265 of 4032 Re: Bought One! [phillipm1]
Jan 25, 2007 (11:00 am)
You were able to get exactly what you wanted, at a price you can live with, right? That's great!
And don't forget that a lot of the really amazing-looking deals you'll read about here and elsewhere include trade-in allowances that artificially reduce the actual price paid.
#1266 of 4032 Re: Pricing confusion plus FightingChance [firewire]
Jan 25, 2007 (11:35 am)
Firewire: USUALLY, the OTD price includes everything - the price paid for the vehicle, the sales tax, title and any other fees paid at time of sale. HOWEVER, if the deal is with an out-of-state dealership (as mine was), Tax and License Fees are NOT included in the OTD price, since those costs are paid later in the buyer's home state at time of registration.
Actually, for comparison purposes, you can't use the OTD price, because there is just too much variation in the taxes and fees paid by buyers in different geographic locations. Same thing goes for deals involving trade-ins; since you don't know the true resale value of the vehicle traded-in, it's impossible to know how much profiteering the dealership shifted to that part of the deal instead of fighting for a bigger markup on the new vehicle's price.
You'll find it difficult to find reported deals with sufficient detail to enable you to make a direct comparison with the one you want to make, but if you start your negotiations from the dealer's invoice price + destination charge and let them know up front that you aren't fooled into thinking that "Dealer Holdback" and "Wholesale Financial Reserve" are true costs for the dealer, (THEY ARE NOT - because Toyota reimburses them after the sale is completed), then you will do just fine. You may not be able to get those charges (or the Advertising charge), eliminated since the V6 Limited is in high demand and short supply, but it doesn't hurt to try!
If you NEED to buy your new RAV4 V6 Limited before February, you may have to be a little less aggressive in your negotiations than you could if you had more time to play the game. And yes, in my experience, a no-nonsense email campaign is just as effective as a "fax attack", and probably better, since you can get a dialog going by email that you can't by fax.
#1267 of 4032 Re: RAV4 Limited V6 4x4 Ordered Today (1/22/07) [homerfan]
Jan 25, 2007 (1:12 pm)
Yes, I think I got mixed up and I apologize anyway. I probably just skipped the fact that you were talking about V6 Limited in which case that IS a good price. I mean, $2497 off of MSRP is a decent deal when you get up to that level. I see you did your homework and you know what you're talking about which is very good. Now that I know that I know you won't get screwed. Just trust your knowledge and don't let anybody in the dealership tell you otherwise.
However, all this mixup brought a couple of good things to the surface that might help our fellow RAV4 buyers.
First thing that threw me off was your base vehicle price: Vehicle Base Model ..........................: $23337.00.
That's why I thought you were talking about something less than Limited because as soon as you click on Limited on Toyota's website it starts from $26,000+. Then you list all these things:
TDA (Advertising Charge).....................: $ 499.00
Gasoline ....................................: $ 10.00
Dealer Holdback .............................: $ 528.00
Whsl. Financial Reserve .....................: $ 264.00
Markup ......................................: $ 500.00
If you add them all up you get pretty much sticker MSRP. So, THAT'S how they calculate MSRP! I did some pretty detailed homework but I didn't realize that (I wish I did) before I went to the dealership. I guess you learn something new every day. That means I paid these darn things too without even knowing it. If somebody had told me that before I am pretty sure I'd have gotten even better deal. But anyway, it's good that other now have the oportunity to use this information.
For one - I don't think you will get them to drop holdback on RAV4. I mean, they don't have to. The vehicle sells. Markup is the one that's completely bogus. Why didn't anyone tell me that before? I would have fought a little bit harder. It's not the fact that I would have saved another $100-200 but the fight is what matters.
So, even if they sell you the vehicle at the advertised Invoice price, they ARE still making a plenty. But knowing about them will give you power. They can't cry on your shoulder how they are not making any money and you're stealing from them etc. When they point out to you how good deal YOU are getting with their offer you can politely point out what kind of good deal THEY are getting with your offer. In some cases you'll find they are a little bit more willing to negotiate. It helped me and I hope it'll help others too.
#1268 of 4032 Re: Pricing confusion plus FightingChance [firewire]
Jan 25, 2007 (2:28 pm)
In a nutshell the fax attack works this way. You send tons of faxes (20) to different dealerships then you wait for responses then you see who gave you the best offer and respond to others that they are not the highest bidder and ask them for a new bid. The reasoning is - if they know they are bidding against each other you'll get a better price etc. You don't have to buy fightingchance packet, you can also buy their book. And everybody knows about the fax attack (including the dealers) and they have found some ways to fight back. So, from 20 dealers you might get a response from 2 that offer you $500 off of MSRP. And things like that. And yes, you can do the same thing via email. Keep in mind that those offers are on the high side because they know if you have it in written then you can go around and shop that offer. IMHO it'd be better to call the dealership directly and ask to talk to the sales manager or something like that. You might get a better offer over the phone (no paper trail).
Another thing about fightingchance, they do a good job of educating buyers but their strongest point is market evaluation. You purchase the package and they tell you how that vehicle stands and where, does it sell well or not, if not how to ask for lower price because they have to sell etc. Well, nobody needs to tell me that RAV4 is selling well and that I won't get much discount for $39. So, I don't think it's worth it for RAV4 or Honda CR-V.
Better you go to carbuyingtips.com and get some good info on what to watch out for, quickly and in easy terms to understand. I hope this answers your question firewire.