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Mazda Protege5 vs. Honda Civic - READ ONLY

130 messages,  Last post on Dec 12, 2003 at 6:28 AM

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What is this discussion about? Honda Civic, Mazda Protege5, Coupe, Hatchback, Sedan

Messages Page 6 of 13

#50 of 130 Things change by icvci

Aug 18, 2003 (11:19 am)

I didn't sell my Civic hatch because it became unreliable, I sold it because I wanted four doors. Something new comes along and you want it, you can get more for your vehicle.
 
The beauty of Honda is resale the advantage doesn't end after 5 years.
 
1993 Cavalier 2 Dr Z24 Coupe
Trade-In - $890
Private Party - $1,329
Dealer Retail - $2,062
 
1993 Honda Civic 2 Dr EX Coupe
Trade-In - $2,326
Private Party - $2,940
Dealer Retail - $3,965
    
1993 Mazda Protege 4 Dr LX Sedan
Trade-In - $1,147
Private Party - $1,632
Dealer Retail - $2,441
 
That's almost $1000 trade-in more. ($1,300 more private party!) And when it comes time for me to make a down payment, that $1000-$1300 extra comes in handy. It's especially appealing in this class (entry level). Where people buy with the knowledge that this won't be their last car.

#51 of 130 That is more than $1000 trade-in! by boggse

Aug 18, 2003 (11:48 am)

This re-sale business is so irrational it kills me. I got more for my 18 month old piece-of-crap Jetta than the Protege cost new, but anyway...
 
So essentially, what we have established is this: all things being equal, if you keep your Protege5 10 years, it will probably cost about $9.83 more per month in depreciation over the Civic. I think that is a fair price for "fun-to-drive." Then again, my daily driver is a Miata, so I may be a little biased as to what "fun-to-drive" is worth these days.

#52 of 130 Again by icvci

Aug 18, 2003 (12:10 pm)

These are entry level vehicles. To most people $1000 is a significant amount of money.
 
2000 Honda Civic 2 Dr DX Hatchback
Trade-In - $6,836
Private Party - $7,886
Dealer Retail - $8,916
 
2000 Mazda Protege 4 Dr DX Sedan
Trade-In - $4,963
Private Party - $5,888
Dealer Retail - $6,794
   
Above is how my hatch fared against the Protege. I paid $13,400 out the door in October 1999. I don't know how that compares to the Pro. I was happy to get $7600 for my Civic, $4400 more than I owed.
 
Or more on topic see the comparison below.
 
2002 Mazda Protege5 4 Dr STD Wagon
Trade-In - $9,313
Private Party - $10,298
Dealer Retail - $11,940
    
2002 Honda Civic 2 Dr Si Hatchback
Trade-In - $13,471
Private Party - $14,542
Dealer Retail - $16,328
   
If you had to unload your P5, you'd be pretty unhappy. $4000 less!
 
Resale is only part of the picture. Safety, reliability, fuel economy and quality factor in as well. It seems alot of people that buy a Honda view it as a practical purchase. To those buying a practical vehicle, there isn't much that tops the Honda. Believe it or not, there is a huge portion of the car buying public that doesn't give a rats behind about fun-to-drive.

#53 of 130 Cost more how? by rivertown

Aug 18, 2003 (12:11 pm)

in depreciation
in maintenance and repairs
in insurance
 
Plus, the Si IS fun to drive!

#54 of 130 Yeah ... by ashutoshsm

Aug 18, 2003 (12:12 pm)

... and the 1000 in additional rebates, incentives and finance savings will make that up anyway.
 
So you get free driving joy with all that
 
And you don't have to "live with" a boring CiBiC for 10 whole years!

#55 of 130 ashutoshsm by icvci

Aug 18, 2003 (12:19 pm)

... and the 1000 in additional rebates, incentives and finance savings will make that up anyway.
 
That wasn't available in 2001. Those who bought in 2001 are getting hit harder than those of us that got the incentives. They got $1000 off the value without getting $1000 off at the dealer. Something Honda tries not to do with it's cars, de-value them.
 
Many people don't consider living with a Civic much work at all. That's the point.

#56 of 130 Costs more in repairs? by dinu01

Aug 18, 2003 (12:28 pm)

How?
 
Have you read CR lately?
 
Dinu

#57 of 130 by iamz

Aug 18, 2003 (12:28 pm)

"Mazda would give it's left arm to be able to compete head to head with Honda and Toyota. They can't. You won't see Mazda compare themselves to Honda or Toyota....ever."
 
You should become a full-time stock broker/trader with your amazing psychic ability to predict the future(or does it only work with car manufacturers?).

#58 of 130 iamz by icvci

Aug 18, 2003 (12:35 pm)

You know differently?
 
I guess I should have said in the near future they won't be doing any comparisons in regards to reliability and durability with themselves to Honda or Toyota.
 
Funny, the B-Series pick-up was listed on JD Powers Vehicle Dependability Study as one of the top three small pick-ups. I wonder why Mazda hasn't gone with it. Why doesn't any of their advertising reflect this accomplishment? Actually, I know why. They are positioned as the company with zoom zoom, not the company with reliability. Reliability is cornered by Toyota and Honda.
 
Nothing psychic there. Just a couple of college advertising courses and some not-too-common sense.

#59 of 130 Things change by smasher

Aug 18, 2003 (12:38 pm)

Regarding trade-in values: for older cars, model-to-model values are kind of irrelevent; condition of the car matters more than its brand. Even then, it's more of a bargaining chip than anything else.
 
My '87 Integra was pretty much worthless by the time I needed a new car. I was going to donate it, but I was dubious that anybody would want it. It had about 170,000 miles on it, but the body was rotted out (my shop said they could see the carpet through the floorpan), the muffler was shot, the interior was faded and trashed, the stereo didn't work. Still, I got ~$1500 for it on trade-in, at least on paper. Haggling over the trade-in was kind of a joke:
 
Dealer: "Does it have a CD player?"
Me: "Yes, but it doesn't wo--"
Dealer: "Never mind that; does it have a CD player?"
Me: "Er, yes."
 
It was the dealer's way of selling me a new P5 for the negotiated price. (MSRP - trade-in = negotiated price.) For those of us who drive cars into the ground, trade-in value isn't as relevant as longterm reliability and owner satisfaction while we own the car.
 
So many more things factor into TCO, and owner satisfaction, than simply trade-in value: gas mileage, reliability, cost/availability of parts, lost productivity due to time spent at the dealership or service facility, insurance, travel time to dealer/service station, cost of mods if you want/need them, purchase price, finance rate, etc.
 
Good luck juggling all that.
 
In the end, you need to figure out what is important to you and what isn't. VWs may have a better resale value than Mazdas, and I really like VWs a lot, but I decided I didn't want to drive a car wondering when the windows would break or when the engine would start leaking oil or when the trim would start falling off. No thanks.
 
I have a good friend in his early 30s who drives a Mercury Sable. Nothing against the Sable, but it's essentially an old-man car. I don't think he enjoys owning or driving the thing; his wife hates it. When I ask him why the heck he bought a Sable, he says, "Well, it got good ratings."
 
Me, I don't just look at the ratings or the TCO or the resale value when I buy a car. I consider that stuff, but it's not the only consideration. To me, fun-to-drive is a big thing, as is utility. If it's going to be my only car, it'd better do everything I want a car to do.
 
Anyway. We were talking about the P5 and the Si. I test drove the Si, but it just wasn't me. It shifted great and had a great engine, but I wasn't thrilled with the handling. Regardless of its merits (and it's a fine car), I couldn't see myself driving the thing day after day. It just left me cold. And I've been a Honda/Acura guy for years.
 
The P5 was another story. It felt right, it had the right combination of sportiness and utility and personality, it was fun to drive, it was a little different from the other stuff I'd driven. It felt like it had more personality than the Si. Out of all the cars I test drove, the two I really liked were the Mini and the P5. The Mini was really, really (REALLY) fun, maybe a little sluggish, but it was too expensive (with no room to haggle with dealerships), too small, with slightly odd ergonomics (e.g., no dead pedal, window switches in center console), had a three-month waiting list, and a limited service network. In addition, it was a complete unknown as far as reliability/servicability was concerned. The P5 was as much fun to drive (brilliant chassis dynamics), not as cute, but far more practical and easier to live with than the Mini. And about $4500 cheaper. Sold.
 
But anyway, we were talking about the P5 and the Si. ;-].

Messages Page 6 of 13

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