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Honda Civic, Mazda Protege5, Coupe, Hatchback, Sedan
#45 of 130 Honda - Loser
Aug 18, 2003 (8:51 am)
Actually, the article you are thinking of tested a 2003 Civic LX:
It placed 5th out of 11 which is not bad, but it was unexpected from Honda. I am not disputing that the Civic will last a long time, but I do think quality control has fallen off at Honda when I see the sorts of flaws I am used to seeing on domestic vehicles showing up in Hondas.
When I walk in my dealer showroom, I see comparisons all over the place between Mazda products and the competition, especially for the Protege and Protege5. That is one of Mazda's biggest selling points:
Just as good as the competition, but fun to drive.
Aug 18, 2003 (9:07 am)
Just as good as the competition, but fun to drive;
and it costs more.
#47 of 130 Costs more? How?
Aug 18, 2003 (9:10 am)
0% for 4yrs financing.
Resale is on Honda's side but $XXX.XX is not worth the same in 10yrs as it's worth today (due to inflation and the rising cost of living).
#48 of 130 Thanks boggse
Aug 18, 2003 (9:25 am)
I stand corrected. I wonder why Honda hasn't done anything to improve the paint on these vehicles? My mom's 02 suffers from the same problem. I figured it must've been a one time problem.
The comparisons are done by a third party, never by Mazda directly. They all speak to the fun-to-drive element or vehicle content and never reliability. Which is great, because, Mazda is on top of the fun-to-drive list. CR says good things about the Protege but, you can't use their name in advertising. Unfortunately, fun-to-drive isn't the over riding factor for the majority of buyers in the categories their vehicles are postioned in. (Mainly entry level to mid level vehicles.) Reliability is. Along with safety, another place Honda accels.
#49 of 130 True Cost of Selling
Aug 18, 2003 (9:35 am)
"Just as good as the competition, but fun to drive;
and it costs more."
Yes, but only if you sell it before the depreciation evens out (5+ years). While they are owning it, i.e. not selling it, the costs are equivalent.
Why push reliability and re-sale? If it is reliable, why sell it?
#50 of 130 Things change
Aug 18, 2003 (10:19 am)
I didn't sell my Civic hatch because it became unreliable, I sold it because I wanted four doors. Something new comes along and you want it, you can get more for your vehicle.
The beauty of Honda is resale the advantage doesn't end after 5 years.
1993 Cavalier 2 Dr Z24 Coupe
Trade-In - $890
Private Party - $1,329
Dealer Retail - $2,062
1993 Honda Civic 2 Dr EX Coupe
Trade-In - $2,326
Private Party - $2,940
Dealer Retail - $3,965
1993 Mazda Protege 4 Dr LX Sedan
Trade-In - $1,147
Private Party - $1,632
Dealer Retail - $2,441
That's almost $1000 trade-in more. ($1,300 more private party!) And when it comes time for me to make a down payment, that $1000-$1300 extra comes in handy. It's especially appealing in this class (entry level). Where people buy with the knowledge that this won't be their last car.
#51 of 130 That is more than $1000 trade-in!
Aug 18, 2003 (10:48 am)
This re-sale business is so irrational it kills me. I got more for my 18 month old piece-of-crap Jetta than the Protege cost new, but anyway...
So essentially, what we have established is this: all things being equal, if you keep your Protege5 10 years, it will probably cost about $9.83 more per month in depreciation over the Civic. I think that is a fair price for "fun-to-drive." Then again, my daily driver is a Miata, so I may be a little biased as to what "fun-to-drive" is worth these days.
#52 of 130 Again
Aug 18, 2003 (11:10 am)
These are entry level vehicles. To most people $1000 is a significant amount of money.
2000 Honda Civic 2 Dr DX Hatchback
Trade-In - $6,836
Private Party - $7,886
Dealer Retail - $8,916
2000 Mazda Protege 4 Dr DX Sedan
Trade-In - $4,963
Private Party - $5,888
Dealer Retail - $6,794
Above is how my hatch fared against the Protege. I paid $13,400 out the door in October 1999. I don't know how that compares to the Pro. I was happy to get $7600 for my Civic, $4400 more than I owed.
Or more on topic see the comparison below.
2002 Mazda Protege5 4 Dr STD Wagon
Trade-In - $9,313
Private Party - $10,298
Dealer Retail - $11,940
2002 Honda Civic 2 Dr Si Hatchback
Trade-In - $13,471
Private Party - $14,542
Dealer Retail - $16,328
If you had to unload your P5, you'd be pretty unhappy. $4000 less!
Resale is only part of the picture. Safety, reliability, fuel economy and quality factor in as well. It seems alot of people that buy a Honda view it as a practical purchase. To those buying a practical vehicle, there isn't much that tops the Honda. Believe it or not, there is a huge portion of the car buying public that doesn't give a rats behind about fun-to-drive.
#53 of 130 Cost more how?
Aug 18, 2003 (11:11 am)
in maintenance and repairs
Plus, the Si IS fun to drive!
Aug 18, 2003 (11:12 am)
... and the 1000 in additional rebates, incentives and finance savings will make that up anyway.
So you get free driving joy with all that
And you don't have to "live with" a boring CiBiC for 10 whole years!