Last post on Mar 23, 2010 at 10:05 PM
You are in the Chevrolet Corvette
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Chevrolet Corvette, Coupe
#803 of 917 Re: Automatic mini-vans Re: Never had a Vette [rayainsw]
Sep 01, 2006 (5:44 pm)
Buy what you like, don't let one guys posting get your shorts all bound up there junior. Don't be ashamed you got an automatic, enjoy it. No need to be so defensive. I have many automatics in my lifetime, just not in a sportscar. I think you will find many end performance cars without auto transmission though. Plus, you left out the St. Louis Corvette statistics for auto/manual? Poor data analysis. Whats the gender breakdown? Got a lot of woman buying vetts or driving them? I am talking a car that a man drives. Ask Jay Leno if he's got an automatic in his vette, he would laugh at you, "Girlee man" There is a lot of enjoyment and handling of a car that a four/five or six speed gives you, but maybe your right and we should all switch to automatics for thats want the plant is building. Should we also all switch to Malibu's cause Chevy is selling more of those too. Should we all get blue ones because the plant paints more that color? Thats it, whatever sells the most, we all should buy. Lots of times it's simples engineering young fellow, a manual will handle the large HP engines much easier. Sure you can get your cruisers with auto, but start pushing the envelop of engine/transmission power and torque you have to go with manual. Maybe you need to see what they put in the big blocks back in the sixties and early seventies?
See any Vipers with auto, lets put that at a 100%. A Z06, nah lets go with 100% manual. See any S2000's with an auto, no, to much engine displacement to the tranny for an auto to handle. 100% manual. And Please, Don't think those paddle shifters are the same as in the Indy cars either my friend.
Anyway, that was a sidebar of my topic, so I go down to Elco Chevy (one of the largest Vette sellers in the Midwest) today, they say there is a two year wait list for the Z06, strange that I can go over to Ebay and buy one tonight with less than 10 miles on it, for less than over MSRP than the dealer wants? Then I go into the garage and talk to a vette mechanic. I ask him how about reliability, he says, stay away from the 2005's which have problems all over the place. He said that about 60% of the common problems were fixed in 2006 and he is hoping in a further reduction for 2007. Said he would wait at least two years before getting a Z06 before the bugs are worked out. I told him that my little S2000 has never been in the shop, granted its a 2001 with only 15K miles. He told me, don't even expect that with a vette.
I understand that, I think the car is more high performance, but when your talking a second or two difference, similar road test parameters and the fit and finish of a S2000, I think I will sit back and wait awhile. Then I arrive home a look at todays Consumer Reports dated October 2006; two cars rated POOR in reliability were the Chevrolet Z06 $76,730 and the Chevrolet Convertible $57,020. PG Though I love the car (I am sorry I prefer manual and do believe automatics are for minivans) and its your best performance for the dollar, I don't like sitting in a shop waiting room eating donuts and coffee. Consumer Reports also gave the Z06 thumbs down for fit and finish. To me, at over 50K, you need to get the fit and finish getting a decent grade, also the interior, though now better and different than my Suburban (have an automatic there), its still below par for a 40-70K car and no better than my Honda 32K.
Just my thoughts, I love the Vette, would like a Z06, maybe I will get one, but from the post, mechanic at Elco and Consumer's reports I will wait.
#804 of 917 Re: Automatic mini-vans Re: Never had a Vette [smu1976]
Sep 01, 2006 (6:51 pm)
"I ask him how about reliability, he says, stay away from the 2005's which have problems all over the place. He said that about 60% of the common problems were fixed in 2006 and he is hoping in a further reduction for 2007. Said he would wait at least two years before getting a Z06 before the bugs are worked out."
Now you are talking real confusion. The Z06 didn't come out until 2006 so there are no 2005 Z06's. Since the C6 did have issues in 2005, that's ok since it was the first year of production and most know to stay away unless you are committed diehard, same would be true for 2006 on Z06. As to wanting same fit and finish you are doomed to be disappointed, it's getting better but what it's trying to catch up with is getting better as well. Then again even a 350HP stock C5 has more than can be useful on the street, unless you plan to take it to the track or do driving classes the 505HP/470torque are more likely to get you in trouble than not.
Also don't get why you say to not consider one off experiences here and then conclude that some mechanic and Consumer Reports are a good basis for a decision. Hummm....
#805 of 917 Re: Never had a Vette [smile1017]
Sep 01, 2006 (7:03 pm)
Aww man, you are 27 and they wouldnt pay much attention to you..? Damn. Well, I dont know if there will be a demo event soon enough but ill check it out. So I should contacted GM and perhaps ill be invited right?
I think I will go to my local dealership and hope they at least let us sit inside one of them....
#806 of 917 Re: Automatic mini-vans Re: Never had a Vette [starrow68]
Sep 01, 2006 (9:26 pm)
Correct, we know when the models were introduced, the C6, the Z51 package and now the Z06. I am interested in a Z06. Maybe you did not read my original post. The C6 was new in 2005, reduction in problems in 2006 and 2007 should be better. The mechanic stated he would wait on the Z06, a year or two. The story from the Elco corvette mechanic seemed to be verified in the most recent CR. Seems that they are saying the same thing? POOR RELIABILITY Do you disagree with Consumer Reports? Go argue with them, not me.
At 50-60K, first year reliability should not be POOR with your flagship car, or maybe you accept that build quality.
You won't see that in the Vette's competition and this will hurt the brand. You don't put a 50K product on the market and say, "Ya, everyone knows we will get it right in two years", this is not 1973 or for GM, maybe it is.
If I want a Z06, just let me spend my money how I want to.
If you want whatever model, great for you, I am not going to care what you do with the car. The beauty of the Z06, is that your getting supercar performance at a good value, you can argue that if you wish. I do feel consumer reports is a good basis for decision, maybe you don't, maybe you have not read the magazine article, but its not good and the C6 and Z06 are both rated? Read, then comment on the facts. The mechanic in "just his experience", seem to verify the data from CR. Maybe you can not put the two together. You will have to tell me what the "P" factor is? The is a Corvette Certified Mechanic at Elco Chevy, one of the largest Vette dealers in the nation,is it Jim Hill, no. Also, you can get into trouble with any car you don't have the ability or maturity to drive. If its a horsepower cut off that you deem that one gets you into trouble, above a certain point is for the track, then your missing the point of the design and build of the car, versus the competiton, go get yourself a vega. People are not spending 70-85K for track cars, please.
#807 of 917 Re: Automatic mini-vans Re: Never had a Vette [smu1976]
Sep 01, 2006 (11:02 pm)
Awww, I hate to get into the manual vs automatic or A vs B discussion....
People should buy what they like.
But, I just have to mention a few things.
I've NEVER seen an automatic 'miss a shift'.
In years of driving an automatic, on 2 lane roads or any such driving conditions, I can easily mash on the accelerator, change lanes, and be around a car much quicker than someone can decide to downshift (and how many gears), lift on accelerator, get to the clutch, get to the shift, make the shift, release the clutch, and back on the accelerator. In ordinary driving, an automatic just does the job much more efficiently, and most of the time, quicker. An automatics' mechanical reaction will, in general, beat most of the manual drivers out there.
Just how often do you really ever need to 'keep those RPM's up', 'push it to the redline', 'shift down to help braking', or any of the other things that might only be done in a manual.
Drop it into 'D' and drive. If you must keep playing with your toy, get that manual.
#808 of 917 Re: Automatic mini-vans Re: Never had a Vette [bolivar]
Sep 02, 2006 (9:34 am)
I agree. Today's automatics are technological marvels that will hold a gear through a turn, blip the throttle before a downshift, and shift faster than any human could shift manually. And you can have manual control over them.
Take for example, Porsche's 997 911 turbo. The Auto is faster than the manual 0-60. Or the SLR Maclaren. You can choose to shift it yourself, but (at least the car mag editors) couldn't match the computers (launch control) shifts and look longer to get to 60.
Unless you are Michael Schumacher and terrible gifted at driving (although even he uses SMG in his F1 car) I doubt most of us can really consistently do better than the modern automatic transmission. In a minivan or in a sports car.
I agree, it's fun to drive stick, and for some people it makes them feel more 'manly' and that's fine, we all have reasons for buying our 'toys'. But some of us buy autos because it makes the car more pleasurable for us (some of us live where there is a lot of traffic!) so please don't disparage us as 'minivan drivers'.
#809 of 917 Re: Automatic mini-vans Re: Never had a Vette [smu1976]
Sep 02, 2006 (9:56 am)
Yes the Corvette is not the most reliable car on the road. But if you look carefully at Consumer Reports (terriblly Japanese car biased though, if you ask me) in terms of owner satisfaction the Corvette rates very highly. Which is true, most of us are very very happy with our Corvettes, and live with the little mechanical problems that may come up.
As for the Z06, it's supercar performance at less than half the price, and, despite the fact it may not be as reliable as a Honda Civic (or your S2000, for that matter) it is much more reliable than your average supercar (Ferrari, Lamborghini, 911 Turbo) and costs much less to maintain. (OK, the NSX is quite a reliable car, but it's the exception- and of questionable supercar status anyway)
One final point, yes, people spend $70k for cars they want to drive on the track. In fact, they will spend far more than that on a car that is only track legal. It just means they have a lot of "discretionary cash" that they can use. I don't know where you live, but if you live by a major racetrack go down sometime when one of the local car clubs is having a track day. I'm sure you'll see some very expensive cars (and some very inexpensive cars too) and some very happy drivers!
Yes, I agree with you, GM has it's problems. But the reliability of the C6 is the least of the General's problems right now. But if it makes you feel better to buy a car in it's 3rd or 4th year of production, by all means wait. It's a long wait though!
#810 of 917 3rd year the charm
Sep 02, 2006 (12:46 pm)
As far as waiting goes, the C6 is in its 3rd year now. By my completely unscientic assessment, that should be enough time for GM to get any managable kinks out of the production process. And, to boot, the C6 is based on the C5. So despite much of it being new, its not completely new. I invested in a 2007 C6 without hesitation.
#811 of 917 Re: Automatic mini-vans Re: Never had a Vette [tsy]
Sep 02, 2006 (2:56 pm)
Consumer Reports is allergic to luxury, incapable of appreciating high-end products in any catagory, especially cars. CR is useful only for run-of-the-mill, middle-of-the-road products, toasters and air-conditioners. For example, they short-changed the redesigned Mustang GT, which has unversally garnered well-deserved praise and attention, as well as made all sort of top-10 lists, including Wards best engine.
As another example, if you want the best in audio and/or video, one of my passions, CR is the LAST place to look. They'll steer you to frumpy, mediocre, mid-level stuff every time.
Finally, high-performance items of any ilk are almost always more tempermental, requiring more care and maintenance.
#812 of 917 Re: Automatic mini-vans Re: Never had a Vette [smu1976]
Sep 02, 2006 (6:03 pm)
smu... "POOR RELIABILITY Do you disagree with Consumer Reports?"
That's just it, the press release said poor 'predicted' reliability, I'm presuming that means based on past data which by definition means from the base C6, not the new Z06. That was the reason the article said it placed lower than the winning 911, so considered it a major factor.
As to $70k cars on track, as has been pointed out, I see many well beyond that and I pass a few of them every so often with my under $50k C5. GT3's come to mind quickly but there are plenty of others not to mention a GT3 Cup car at a recent event. Lots of discretionary income here in Calif. so that may be unusual, but I can't know too much about elsewhere.
And yes, I did read your original post, it mentioned the Z06 and then talked about 2005.