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You are in the Prices Paid - Buying & Leasing Experiences
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Subaru Legacy, Sedan, Wagon
#605 of 1010 Re: [ateixeira]
Jul 12, 2008 (7:05 pm)
I'm considering purchasing (financing) the new 2009 Legacy 2.5i SE now that they're out near me (northern NJ).
I've never purchased a new car before (my 2000 Honda was a graduation gift from high school) and I had a few questions.
I found this website: http://www.cars101.com/subaru/legacy/legacy2009.html#price
This seems to show that the dealer's invoice for the 2.5i SE Automatic is PZEV: $21,402 including destination fees.
My question and concerns and experiences have been:
1. Test drove the `08 Legacy 2.5i SE in early June. The only color I want is the Obsidian Black, and the dealerships near me did not have any in stock. They were also unable to track one down for me without a deposit.
2. A game of phone tag continued for a few weeks until I finally told the sales agent that I will wait for the 2009's because I wanted the better audio and VDC if I was buying a new car.
3. I received a call today, and the sales agent wanted me to leave a deposit over the phone. I refused, on basis that if I put down a 100.00 deposit without negotiating the price, they can then say the car is worth 30,000 and basically extort me out of my deposit.
I imagine that in the next few weeks I'll now go to that local dealership, test drive the 2009 SE just for grins & giggles, then I'll have to talk money with the people. Unfortunately, they said I don't qualify for 0% financing (at least on my own, I wanted to leave my wife off of the loan for the time being - they refused to let me test drive until they ran my credit), but I'm okay with other rates as they add only a few dollars a month.
I am assuming they're going to be looking for a deposit again, that seems to be the way to do business at this dealership. I'm pretty much not going to leave one until they 1. Appraise my trade-in Civic, which is anywhere from 3800-5000 from the dealer's blue book (we discussed the value of my trade when I did the first test drive) and 2. negotiate a price.
Back to main topic, if the dealer's invoice is $21,402, I'd like to know what exactly this price is. Is it the "the dealer paid this much money for the car, and if they sell it for anything less, they're losing money" price, or is this the "dealer expects to make a predetermined amount of profit off the car with this price."
What's the typical commission for the sales agents?
The MSRP on the vehicle is PZEV: $22,960 including destination. What kind of expectations should I have on the dealership trying to sell me the car (high 19's? low 20's?)
And lastly, what's the out-the-door price? I've heard this referred to a few times by people saying they got the car "out-the-door" for a certain amount. I'm guessing this is the price paid for the car + destination fees + titling/registration/etc fees + tax?
Tax in NJ is 7%, and assuming I do manage to negotiate for 20,000, we're talking a 1,400 tax on the car. Does tax apply to the whole sale price of 20,000, or does the value of the trade-in (say 4,200) and any down payment (say $800 for easy math), affect the tax - in other words, 15,000 * 7% tax instead of 20k?
Thanks, this is confusing as hell.
Jul 14, 2008 (9:22 am)
I understand why you're confused. You have an awful lot going on with the Subaru. You need to separate the three parts of the transaction -- the financing, the price of the car and the trade. The salesperson will try to combine these three transactions to get the best price for the dealership.
If I were you, here's what I would do:
First, if the Honda is in reasonably good shape and gets good gas mileage, I would try to sell it privately. People are looking for economical cars today.
Second, I would see if you can get a price on your car with Fitzgerald Auto Mall in Maryland -- fitzmall.com. When I was searching for my Legacy, I would go to their site and always find the lowest prices of any dealer. I've heard good things about them, but decided it was too far away from my home. I went to a local deal and paid about $1,000 more for the convenience. Depending on your location in NJ, you might give them a try. At the very least, they'll give you a bottom figure which you can use to negotiate with your local dealer.
Third, see if the '09s have the same incentives. I see the '08 SEs still come with $1,000 off, but there's nothing on the Subaru web site about '09 incentives other than the Forester. You should try to get the same with the '09 SE, plus the low-cost financing. Keep in mind, the dealer may be offering the low-cost financing as an alternative to lowering the price to the level you want. I've been able to get low financing and a low price on a new car, but to get that combination, I've usually bought a leftover and not the newest model.
Fourth, you might shoot for an '08 Limited with VDC instead. I bought mine in January ($25,400 MSRP, $22,900 sale price, good price on trade, paid cash) and I heard at that time that some people were getting Limited pricing in the high $21s. At this point, you may be able to get a very good deal on one, especially if you can be flexible on color. You'll have the VDC, leather, PZEV, etc., but you won't get the Harmon Kardon stereo. The factory audio unit is adequate and you can always upgrade it later, although you may only be able to replace the speakers and/or add a subwoofer. From what I've read, the head unit (radio/CD changer) is integrated with the climate controls, so it's apparently tough or impossible to switch to an aftermarket radio. However, you might find that you can at some point buy an '09 Harmon Kardon factory head unit and have it switched out with the one in the '08.
Fifth, during my shopping, I found that dealers exchanged cars all the time and didn't seem to have any problem with it. Your dealer should be able to get you the black one without your having to put down a deposit first. I mean, if he's telling you how great the car is and that it's worth the price he wants to charge, he should have no problem selling a black one to someone else if you change your mind.
Finally, the Legacy is apparently due for a redesign in 2010 so I'm not sure how high demand will be for the '09s. Sometimes it can help for you to let the salesperson know that.
I hope some of these pointers help. Good luck!
#607 of 1010 Re: [longislander1]
Jul 15, 2008 (11:27 am)
As someone who recently helped my daughter purchase her first new car, I absolutely agree with selling the Civic privately as long as it's in good shape. Civics, Sentras, and Corollas are selling at inflated prices right now. I talked to one used car salesman who told me "2 years ago, an 8 year old Corolla w/100K miles would have to be priced at $4K to get anyone to even look at it. Now it can be put on the lot with a $6K price and people are lining up for test drives".
#608 of 1010 Re: [pilot1226]
Jul 16, 2008 (4:42 am)
Do you mind sharing which dealer has the 09 Legacy in stock? I live in north NJ too. Thanks.
#609 of 1010 Re: [kominsky]
Jul 16, 2008 (6:50 am)
ooops... my post said I "helped my daughter purchase her first new car". Bad wording.. it was new to her, but we bought used... very used!
#610 of 1010 Re: [horsecca]
Jul 16, 2008 (11:10 am)
Lynnes' Nissan Subaru in Bloomfield (off the GSP exit 148 I think)
#611 of 1010 Quote on 09 Special Edition
Jul 17, 2008 (8:16 am)
I just got a quote on the 09 SE model:
$21,398+$289 doc+title/tax. I am just wondering if this is worth the extra money above the 08. I can get it at $18999+$289 doc+tite/tax. I really like harman kardan sound system on the 09s 'cause I own an 08 outback and sound is pretty bad. Any thoughts? Thanks.
#612 of 1010 Re: Quote on 09 Special Edition [horsecca]
Jul 17, 2008 (9:10 am)
Interesting, I had a similar quote when I went there about a month ago. They offered to get the 2008 Legacy 2.5i SE down to the 19's.
It's a very good price for the 2008, I think there may also be some good financing deals too.
The differences between the `09 and the `08 are the stereo (huge upgrade with audio) and the VDC being standard across the board. I'm sure you know roads aren't the best up here in NJ, and while I've never hydroplaned in my Civic, I definitely have 360'd down the Parkway in even light snow. Would VDC have helped me? Probably not as AWD would have, which is what made me look at Subarus in the first place.
I found a pretty good website for data regarding pricing and specifications. It's not nearly as pretty as Edmunds, nor does it have reviews etc, just very data-driven:
This shows that the PZEV version of the 2.5i SE has a dealer invoice of $21,723 including Destination Fees (about $700).
The manual PZEV 2.5i SE is $20,811 including Destination.
$21,398 is some considerable savings under the invoice price assuming you went with the automatic (you didn't list the transmission style above.)
With tax (7%) this would take it to $22,895 which is pretty good for an all-wheel drive car with vehicle stability control. Even the new Nissan Sentras and Honda Civics on a comparably equipped vehicle will start to get into the 18's/19's (though, they are FWD only, so they have better gas mileage but you lose the AWD).
I may go talk to the sales agents down there anyway even though there aren't any good rebates. I wish I'd paid attention last year with the `08's just coming out. I'd love to know if there's going to be an "End of the Summer" or "Fall" event for the 2009's - I can last another few months to save a grand or two.
What eventually's going to have to happen for me is I'll have to convince them that I want it out the door at $22,000 before taking down payments and tradeins into consideration. Will it happen? Who knows, but I will say towards the end of the month is when you start getting some awesome deals on cars (I test drove a Hyundai Elantra for the heck of it about a year ago, and they were trying to sell me it brand new for 11,000 - about 5,500 less than the sticker MSRP!)
$22,000 out the door - Tax would mean the car would be sold for $20,460 (minus documentation) which I think is a decent price.
Anyone know if SoA tends to have similar offers later in the year compared to what they had this summer (0% financing for well-qualified buyers, $1000+ cash back)
#613 of 1010 Re: Quote on 09 Special Edition [horsecca]
Jul 17, 2008 (10:45 am)
At this time of year, you might be able to get an '08 Limited for the same price as the '09 SE. You'll get leather, VDC and other amenities and the look won't be any different. If I were you, I'd buy an '08 Limited and then trot off to an aftermarket shop for better speakers (or ask the dealer if the '09 HK speakers can be retrofitted), plus add the Subaru subwoofer under the seat. Paying an extra $2,400 to get the Harmon Kardon stuff just doesn't make sense to me. If they're putting it in Subarus, it's not likely HK's top-of-the-line equipment anyway. My wife and I have '08s (1 Limited, 1 Outback LLBean) and I don't think the sound is that bad (although I do have one buzzing speaker that needs a fix at the dealer).
Jul 17, 2008 (10:54 am)
My wife and I aren't huge fans of leather, though I suppose she would enjoy the heated seats.
I'll mull it over. Thanks for the recommendation.