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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Toyota Avalon Prices Paid and Buying Experience
1474 messages, Last post on Oct 01, 2009 at 8:52 AM
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Been following this site for about a month and from what I've seen (comments and so on)it's a great place to do your homework before signing the paper work. I just now got on board so this is my 1st. post. Three weeks ago I ordered a 06 Avalon XLS w/ PC (Blizzard Pearl) SS (Side Signal mirror Upgrade) MG (Mud Guards) and M5 (Carpet Floor Mats). The price was $29,780.00 and out the door price is $32,096.40. After seeing what some others have paid for the XLS and LTD I'm not so sure I got such a good deal. The car should be in on 02/10 and I'm under no obligation to accept it. The up side is the salesperson I worked with seems to be a stand up guy. The down side is the dealership (Silsbee Toyota of Silsbee Texas). Sleazy, for lack of a better word at this time...but that's another story...and oh yeah, the out the door price did include a $200.00 Dealer Prep fee (double dipping). Any thoughts or comments would be welcomed. |
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I took delivery for my XL on the 19th of January from Stone Mountain Toyota with the following options: Blizzard Pearl 6 disc cd player Mats including trunk Lip spoiler Anti-theft system Cloth interior The MSRP was 28431.35 Bottom line I paid: 25,200 for the car 599.95 dealer fee 1,806.00 taxes (7%) in my county 41.00 title 27,647 total All negotiations over the internet, no hassel. Good luck
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Hi everyone -- longtime lurker, first-time poster. I'm probably going to pull the trigger on a 2006 Avalon Limited. My biggest qualifications are that I want one in a darker color (no "Phantom Pearl", please) and no nav system. (It seems nice but I hate the idea of having to drag the car back to a dealership just because my GPS is acting funny... besides I don't want to pay the premium for one.) I was planning on using USAA's price negotiation service -- what experiences have people had with that? Do they do a good job of tracking down *exactly* the options that are asked for, or just so-so? Do they help with factory orders? Speaking of which, does anyone have a rough timeframe idea of how long it would take (and if there's any cost premium) if I were to order a factory-built Avalon? Are we talking 2 weeks or 8 weeks or more? Thanks guys!
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Replying to: ibentmywookie (Feb 02, 2006 6:43 pm) |
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This answers a lot of previous posts. I emailed 22 dealers in mid-Texas, NE Oklahoma, Eastern Arkansas, SW and mid-west Missouri and mid-east Kansas telling them exactly what I wanted. A 2006 Black with Ivory interior, Avalon Limited, with only trunk and floor mats, XM radio, and Vehicle Stability. I sent the emails a couple of days before Thanksgiving. I told them that I was in no hurry since I was still driving my 2000 Avalon, which I was going to keep. Two days later- Two never replied. Nine said, "come on in, we will make you a deal on what you want". ( I had already checked inventory and knew there were none in the US that met my requirements.) Ten replied that they had similar Limited and XLS's in stock that they would be happy to push on me with GPS, or remote starter, and/or wow!-DYNAMIC LASER CRUISE CONTROL. Just what everyone needs. Also thrown in were dealer provided options. One dealer came back and said they could not find one in stock anywhere in the US, but they could factory order one for...ready..... $31237.00 out the door. No tax or title cost included. (They were in a differentt state than me.) I had to pick it up at their dealership. I figured MSRP was about $35,843. I told them to get started They told me that they thought they could have it ready by 12/31/05, but it was not a promise. I picked up the car on 12/29/05. Only additional hidden cost was a hokey $41.00 tire disposal and tire excise tax that I caved in for. But I was able to neutralize that by getting a free dealer detail at 15K and 30K. My wife now has 2,500 miles on the car. Yea. The old 2000 Avalon is my car now. I agree with an earlier comment that the car needs a six speed to be perfect. I think part of the problem is that the car is so much more responsive (fast) than the 1999-2004's that Toyota overlooked the need for a better transmission. But believe me, you will still love it! Because I have provided so much detail I feel a duty to the dealer to not divulge its name. So don't ask. But I will tell you that if you live in approximatly the middle of the mainland US, you can probably work a great deal if you search around. |
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I spent about six weeks, off and on, working my deal. I took delivery of an black Avalon Limited in mid-January in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill-RTP area. No NAV, no dynamic cruise, no stability. The physical sticker reflected only the base price, destination, mats and a $25 fuel surcharge … the physical sticker had no fluff or right-hand side junk such as sealant/undercoating … all too common in the Southeast region, stickered as ToyoGuard (as if it came from the factory that way! … the SE region re-generates its own stickers) for $700. This car was ‘on the asphalt’ and it sat pretty much the way I wanted to buy one, other than the fact that it was not my first choice for exterior color. I added a number of PPOs (post-production options such as mudguards, sat radio, that sort of thing). Were the PPOs to appear on the sticker, the MSRP would be $35,873.35 (based on NADA.com and KBB.com). Add a $399 doc fee and $9.30 inspection fee, total $36,281.65. The invoice would be (w/out doc & inspection fees) $31,513.62. My initial offer was $31,500 “delivered price” (meaning to include all monies except TTT – sales Tax, Title and Tag transfer fees). That number tied to the number I had in place for a Limited sitting on a ultra-high-volume lot on the Maryland side of the DC beltway (when comparing apples-to-apples that is … I had to adjust out items it had … and really didn’t want … such as DCC and stability) … tied, that is, BEFORE the PPO items. What I DID forget, though I am reasonably certain about it, is that SET (SouthEast Toyota), the regional distributor (NC/SC/GA/AL/FL), skims about $700 or so off the top of each Limited sold by dealers in the region (see, for example, ddent01’s post on 11/28/2005 or toyodlr’s post on 12/30/2005). I neglected to add that number into my initial offer, having whipped up the number on the quick … the car was not on their on-line inventory (a deal was pending but gone stale) but when I spotted it on the lot after hours, I quickly … maybe a wee bit too quickly … worked up my number just before stepping onto the lot during business hours). So looking back, I would have intended a $32,200 initial offer ... and to hold pretty firm ground from there on up. Then again, leaving out the $700 wasn’t so bad an error, it doesn’t exactly hurt your position to lowball a bit. Notwithstanding my $700 omission, I walked into the dealership believing (based on all the numbers I had found on the web such as at this site and the numbers I was picking up working other dealers over the phone/email) that, in leaving out all monies for the PPO items … and considering the fact that PPOs usually have almost pure fluff in the pricing, that the initial offer was hitting just a wee bit south of the dealer’s walkaway price … and that that would force the true cost of the PPO items out into the open. It really only took about 20 minutes to get the handshake, most of that not in haggling, but rather from them working to pull PPO info from the parts dept and the service dept so they could make the counter-offer. While I waited for that, they fetched me a Starbucks. The final deal was $32,531.53 + $399.00 (doc) + $9.30 (inspection) = $32,939.83 delivered price (plus TTT) So I calculate that to be “invoice plus” $1,426.21 … or “invoice plus” 4.525%. Again, pretty durn close to toyodlr’s 12/30/2005 posted number for a Limited. I looked back again at other numbers posted to see how much money I might have left on the table. For instance, I did a rough comparison to tstrick320’s 01/29/2006 deal to get a feel for that. (His approach, btw, is often a very highly recommended car buying strategy in books, websites, etc. But I had also been taking other quotes by phone, email and by walk-ins prior to this walk-in, so I sort I wasn’t a ‘pure’ walk-in guy but took more of a “mixed” approach, in that sense.) And the comparison can’t be entirely exact … for instance, there are differences in destination charges, a sticker/invoice number for Blizzard White if he got that color … and if he tipped them in advance that he was considering the extended warranty … well, that has a good bit of profit built in (in the Southeast region you are apparently buying your warranty from SET, who not only gets a cut of the profit on the sale, but supplies parts at their wholesale cost and dictates the labor costs to the dealer). It is possible they gave up some of that possible profit in his car deal. (And hinting at loans, leases and such, btw, may also have tempted them to go tight on the car, again looking at the possibility of making some it up in the F&I office). But, based on the NADA website, it seems he gave about “invoice plus” $150 (even including the doc fee). That jives out with other numbers I found (see, for example, bobr321’s post on 12/27/2005.) Add on the SE region fee (again, I am reasonably certain that the SET fee is in excess of any such fees in other regions) and what I appear to have “left on the table” is about $575. But I did get some things FOR that $575: 1) The handshake came within 20 minutes. 2) The car was on the lot—no waiting. No driving to pick the car up hundreds of miles away. And no snafus when I get there. 3) Except for exterior color, I did not have to compromise in any way on the actual vehicle. (Again, the Maryland car had options I didn’t want … and when it came to “locating” something closer to what I wanted, they started dropping the ball.) 4) I was out the door, paperworked, car prepped, within two hours. Much of that time was spent queued up for the F&I man … who was doing brisk business. 5) I was given $300 over KBB “excellent” trade for my vehicle, without a moment’s haggle. Naturally, I would have liked to sold it someone on the street for more, but for a trade, this price seemed reasonable. (I am pretty sure the dealer swapped it … instead of running it down the lane … so, in that sense, he made little on the trade, though he’ll retail what he took in. The used fleet strategy at the lot seems to be 3 to 5 year old Toyotas, so I knew he wouldn’t want it and that there was no money for me to pick up out of that end of the deal. My car looked sharp with new tires, brakes, no dings, a nice sound system – easy to swap.) For all I knoew, introducing the trade into the any of the other deals I had been working elsewhere – which I had not attempted -- might well have deep-sixed any cost advantage. Here, the trade didn’t put any drag on the deal whatsoever. (Of course, your dealing/haggling will generally go better with no trade.) |
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6) They had clear and complete PPO knowledge and skills. Many of my other negotiations resulted in all sorts of confusion regarding the installation of the sat radio, for instance. (In the Southeast, if you see an Avalon on a dealer lot already loaded with sat radio, it is most likely a SET add-on done at their consolidation/”port” location (Commerce GA, outside Atlanta) … it’s probably NOT work that was done by the dealership. So a lot of dealerships are unfamiliar with how to do the work.) This dealership routinely does PPO work in their own “make-ready” environment—no farming it out to third parties … whose product/process knowledge (and probably quality) clearly varied considerably from one dealership to another. 7) The dealership is reasonably proximate. You’ll usually get treated a little bit better on service, parts, etc. if you go where you buy. You’ve given them some money already and they’re going to treat you better, in the hopes that you will stick with them and buy again. 8) This was a high-volume lot … but not a ULTRA-high-volume lot (The Maryland dealership is in the top ten in America in terms of volume), so it would be expected I would have to give up a wee bit more. The higher the volume, the less a dealership has to make “per car” to cover fixed costs. 9) My “invoice” included some dealership labor and effort (that being the PPO work), a bit more involved deal, a bit more cost for them … than an invoice number based totally on a “stocked” vehicle. 10) This dealership seems to be extremely customer & customer-service oriented. In a way, almost like a Saturn lot sort of culture. There’s not a sweat box on the property. I never saw a four-box pad laying anywhere. And come service time, it should turn out that it was advantageous to have bought there. 11) I did get some minor concessions regarding future service/business when I objected to the doc fee (that I originally intended to be included in my offer number). 12) As I said, I raised some minor objections more than once after the handshake. At some dealerships, doing so would be a deal-breaker (the more work to close the deal, the higher the price). The key man stepped into the deal in each time, addressed/resolved the objection and the deal moved forward. I think it is fair to say that, from the dealer’s perspective, having to go through the basic motions of pushing a trade out the door and doing a swap (#5), having to make a wee bit more per car (#8) and having to use up some of the dealership’s staff, direct labor and other resources toward the PPOs (#9) … well all that accounts for a lot of that $575. And the number sort of jives out with the Maryland lot as well. That was a fixed price, no haggle dealership similar to Carmax, Saturn, etc. Generally it seemed they wanted invoice plus $700 for any Limited sitting on the lot plus $99 doc fee, delivered/OTD price. Conventional wisdom is that customers pay a premium for the convenience of not haggling -- that the best haggle price will be a better price. So the difference between tstrick320’s deal and the Maryland price ($799-$150=$649) could be seen as the “convenience” cost for not haggling. (While this seems, at first blush, to be cheaper than my final deal, the fact is that when we got into “locating” my car, the PPO pricing and such the difference between the Maryland deal and the deal I DID DO seemed to shrink to almost nothing). AND all of my numbers & assumptions seem to tie right up to the toyodlr’s 12/30/2005 post as well (Just as he said, I even had trouble finding the first exterior color choice, Blizzard/Pearl White in the config. I wanted.) So, what I get out of all this that … to me … my experience & numbers confirm tstrick320’s strategy did cut to the bone, he found the dealer’s walkaway price … about invoice plus $150 (or so) for a Limited … IF you hit a ultra-high-volume dealership outside the SouthEast region. If you are in the Southeast region, the dealer’s walkaway price at a ultra-high-volume lot (such as Atlanta Toyota) is probably closer to invoice plus $850. (Again, just as toyodlr’s 12/30/2005 post suggests.) I can certainly recommend, of course, the dealership where I bought, Marc Jacobson Toyota, not only for (what I think to be) a good, quick deal, but also for the product knowledge and the general straight-forward, customer-orientation that seems to permeate the property (… versus any wiggly, what’ll ya gimme tactics). That culture seems to carry over into service, parts, and so on. They, just in September, opened this high-volume lot and they are trying to quickly steal the pole position as the area’s high-volume dealer … meaning they are, at this moment, apparently much more ready to deal than other lots in the immediate RDU area. It’s not fixed pricing, but in many other ways, I picked up a very positive, Saturn-lot-like vibe off of the place. The Maryland dealership is Fitzgerald Auto Mall, just off the Beltway. My sense of it is that IF * you are willing to pick from what is on the lot as it sits, and * you have financing in place, no trade, and * you are willing to cut a deal, take delivery and head out the door immediately, and * you are willing to pay a little bit at a fixed pricing lot since you are not a strong haggler … then this might be a very, very good place for you to buy a car. (Otherwise, you’re going to find it not so different from other well-worked deals.) Fitz (as well as Atlanta Toyota) is listed at the Toyota website (under the dealer locator menu choice) as having the President’s Cabinet Award (not JUST the President’s Award) … for being among the top 60 US dealerships in volume and also being among the top 12 based on the customer Sales Satisfaction Survey. Based on past deal attempts over the years (both on the lot and off) as well as this attempt, I do understand the reservations some expressed on this board about Atlanta Toyota … the ultra-high-volume dealers like Atlanta Toyota are typically going to offer a good price … but if the deal is for something not on the lot, not a immediate close, or if it become labor-intensive or time-intensive, well, they are not going to be very supportive. They usually have “qualified” (ready-and-able-to-buy) customers queued up on the asphalt all day long … so why bother? They niche themselves more as a lower-cost, higher-volume new car lot … much more so than as a fuller, customer-supportive, total experience/ownership dealership. A emphasis on a “production-line approach” to new car sales.
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