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Toyota to add more hybrids..... - READ ONLY

78 messages,  Last post on Sep 04, 2003 at 6:18 AM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota, Hybrid Cars, Fuel Efficiency (MPG)

Messages Page 6 of 8

#49 of 78 by john1701a

Aug 05, 2003 (4:53 am)

> The Model T may be the only vehicle
 
I said the TECHNOLOGY, not the vehicle.
 
> but collision AVOIDANCE
 
Prius is a smaller target and is more nimble than many vehicles on the road. That gives it a clear advantage over a monster SUV attempting the same avoidance manuever. So finding ways to make smaller vehicles, like a practical-size SUV, a minivan, or a large car, more appealing by adding hybrid techonology will draw market attention.
 
Prius clearly handles what real-world encounters have required from owners. Whether that achieves high ratings in a controlled lab test really doesn't have that much relevance, since those tests exceed requirements (but look great on paper). In other words, don't fall victim to marketing. Each year automakers tell you "more is better". Well after decades of doing that, you've come to expect it even though road conditions have changed very little (if at all). In my area, road conditions are actually better than they were in the past. Now the speed limit matches what people actually attempted to drive in the first place and highways have been expanded (both lanes and alternate routes) to handle the growing population. An assault vehicle is not needed, even though advertisements on television say otherwise. They aren't going to tell you the product they made years ago satisfy your actual needs, they will force the "more is better" thought to get you to buy the newer product. It's all a marketing game. Think about what is really needed. The gimmicks to make their product appear better than the competition is just fluff, providing no actual benefit for real-world encounters.
 
JOHN

#50 of 78 by daysailer

Aug 05, 2003 (11:18 am)

In the physical world, perception is not reality. A car may feel "nimble" or quick while being neither. To function in the physical world, where automobiles operate, it matters not how you feel, it only matters what you DO. Perhaps this distinction is lost on a generation raised on video games and "virtual" reality.
 
Sensations are important as feedback in the control loop, but if they suggest capabilities greater than can actually be delivered by the machine, they can be a liability. Instrumented testing under controlled (and therefore repeatable) conditions can define the ACTUAL limits of reality (and to date, the Prius has not acquitted itself well in such tests). "Seat of the pants" testing and anecdotal experience may be fodder for conversation but are good for little else.

#51 of 78 by john1701a

Aug 05, 2003 (3:37 pm)

> it only matters what you DO
 
Time and time again I focus on *DO* but that fact continues to be discredited by emphasizing perception instead.
 
You can't FEEL anything (a sensation) in a Prius. The nimble nature is very disappointing. Yes disappointing, since you can't FEEL the agressive steering ability. (Of course, some people like the smoothness.)
 
Your eyes see it though! I am in fact able to perform those manuevers. I *DO* it. The same goes for the other owners too. But that continues to be ignored by those that don't even drive a Prius.
 
When you drive it, you find out firsthand. I've slammed on the brakes at highway speed. I've climbed snowy hills in the winter. I've climbed up small mountains with a loaded interior & trunk. I've swerved around objects in the road suddenly. None of them have ever caused the so-called problems you suggest.
 
JOHN

#52 of 78 If you can't feel anything, ........................ by daysailer

Aug 06, 2003 (12:48 pm)

you must not be DOing anything! A car cannot produce accelerations that are not experienced by the occupants (suspension motions et al notwithstanding), so if you don't FEEL it, it's NOT happening (at least not rapidly enough to notice).

#53 of 78 by john1701a

Aug 06, 2003 (2:55 pm)

> A car cannot produce accelerations that are not
> experienced by the occupants
 
You obviously haven't been in a Prius.
 
What is there to feel? Nothing shifts and the RPM remains constant.
 
When first experienced, it kind of leaves you hanging. You expect the soft thump of an automatic transmission changing. But instead, you get nothing. Then later, the smooooooooth grows on you.
 
JOHN

#54 of 78 Oh, excuse me John, .................................. by daysailer

Aug 07, 2003 (4:06 am)

I forgot that the Prius is not subject to the laws of physics. Silly me!

#55 of 78 by john1701a

Aug 07, 2003 (5:29 am)

Which law would that be?
 
It sounds like you are a lawyer.
 
With 56,300 miles of Prius driving now, I know what I'm talking about. It is remarkably smooth, despite what you claim.
 
JOHN

#56 of 78 well by nippononly

Aug 07, 2003 (8:44 am)

I drive a Prius every week, and I certainly feel it moving away from a stoplight, and when it stops too! G-force, however slight, can most certainly be felt in this car, just as in any car.

#57 of 78 by john1701a

Aug 07, 2003 (9:55 am)

> G-force, however slight, can most certainly be
> felt in this car
 
Yes, but there isn't any feeling produced from mechanical operation, no shifting of any kind despite the fact that motor & engine ratios are changing. That was the point... and still is. Once acceleration begins, feeling remains consistant as speed increases.
 
JOHN

#58 of 78 John, I remind you ................................... by daysailer

Aug 07, 2003 (11:21 am)

that the present comments were spawned by your statement:
 
> "......... you can't FEEL the
> agressive steering ability."
 
what does that "agressive steering ability" accomplish if not lateral acceleration?
 
> "Your eyes see it though!"
 
Now THAT is a new twist, in lieu of dynamic performance, we have dynamic imagery! Sounds like a video game to me, or maybe just a vivid imagination.

Messages Page 6 of 8

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