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SUVs Toyota 4Runner Sulfur Smell from Toyota 4Runner
862 messages, Last post on Aug 20, 2009 at 3:48 PM
You are in the Toyota 4Runner Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
| BGS it probably will be a waste of time with toyota's Abitration.It was with me.I filed with the state lemon law. They just accepted my claim. Iam waiting for new abitration date.This time with the Office of the attorney General,lemon law arbitration program. Keep trying. | |
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I don't really agree with the logic that because a couple of other types of cars also stink that this lets Toyota off the hook. The point is that not ALL cars do it, only some, and further, that some of the ones that DO stink a lot don't let the stink into the car's interior. So I think there is an argument that can be heard regarding the Lemon Law. It really depends on whether the owner can convince anyone that this is persistent, obnoxious and incurable. And I don't know the answer to that, never having experienced the problem. |
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in a couple of my vehicles, beginning with a 1992 GMC Yukon with a bad 02 sensor. Annoying, yes, but hardly a "defect" in the legal definition. Hey, people win lawsuits and claim arbitrations all the time - more power to 'em. Just don't ask me to testify. I'll step out of this topic, I suppose, since I don't agree with the layman definition of a "defect", a "lemon" and "resolution". Unfortunately, I deal with the real world and practically-applied meanings of those words, not what a consumer wants them to be. |
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Well the consumer is often put in that position, isn't he/she?--- of being outside the "system" and not knowing the jargon, or even the rules. California has an interesting wrinkle on the Lemon Law: "Any defect or condition that substantially impairs the use, value or safety of your vehicle under warranty, and that you have tried to have repaired by an authorized dealer, entitles you to seek a refund or replacement under the Lemon Law, even if the manufacturer continues to say it cannot find a problem" Caifornia also has a "presumtive" clause that throws a bit of extra weight to the consumer, in the same way people are "presumed" innocent until proven guilty by the courts. You the consumer may presume your car is a lemon if you can solidly prove that attempts have been made to fix it and have failed. Of course, laws vary state to state, I'm not a lawyer and don't want to be, blah blah blah..... |
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in New Jersey, for instance. As soon as you send the state a "fix it now" letter, they have 10 days to respond, and there's a presumption that the vehicle is a lemon. That STILL doesn't engage the manufacturer, usually, until the suit ends up in court. Just because the law SAYS the manufacturer should do something doesn't mean it happens - in fact, it seldom does until they're sued. I wouldn't have a job and 5,300 cases under my belt if the manufacturers did what the law said - you can understand why I'm doubtful that any vehicle mfr is going to just pay down and roll over for a consumer - ain't gonna happen. The irony is that the US manufacturers ASSISTED in writing every state's lemon law, as well as the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act. What folks don't understand is that what you, I, or your neighbor considers to be a condition that "substantially impairs the use, value or safety" and what the courts believe to be a condition that "substantially impairs the use, value or safety" are usually two different things. Consumers try to take this fight on with little or no research or knowledge, or they stop reading when they've read what they wanted to read...not what they needed to read. Just like people hearing only what they want to hear, same concept. I recommend counseling and advice from a professional, especially when it doesn't cost anything - most lemon law lawyers (that I've dealt with) work on a contingency basis instead of demanding a retainer. |
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I think safety criteria are much harder to prove than value criteria, that's correct. If in fact one could prove that their car smelled like a dead rat, I would hope that the court would find this a serious detriment to value. As for manufacturers assisting in writing regulations, this is the age old problem with solely using regulations to force a change. The lobbyists adhere very closely to the legislative process (often providing much of the information necessary) and end up being partial creators of the regulations. Happens all the time in EPA regs, labor regs, etc. |
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that make us look good to consumers (and why most consumers think you just go into the dealer for an "exchange" like at Wal-Mart or Target), but we still won't comply, as a whole, and there'll be no penalties for a pattern of non-compliance because we helped write the laws. They sure pulled one on us! |
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I had my arbitration hearing 10-21-2004. The only response Toyota could give to the arbitrator was that due the poor quality of crude in the worldwide market, there is a higher content of sulfur in our gasoline. This is why the 2003 4Runner smells so bad. Toyota expressed there is nothing wrong with the working condition of the 4Runner. I asked if they had any proof from Shell, Exxon or Mobil to name a few. She expressed that she had spoke with a service tech at the manufacturer and that this was the information he was given. This is pretty said for a major corporation like Toyota. I will be receiving an answer next week. I will keep you posted. By the way, I did take the arbitrator on a test drive and the car smelled bad. I hope he smelled the smell. He was about 80 years old. I keep preying. BGS
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Replying to: bgs (Oct 21, 2004 7:51 pm) There is a technical service bulletin #EG020-04 issued on June 14, 2004 to address this problem on the model year 2003-04 4Runner with the 2UZ-FE engine. I believe this is just for the V8 engine. I have a copy which I had downloaded after getting an address I think from this forum. Do a search on the "Problems and Solutions" section using keywords " TSB or Technical Service Bulletin and/or sulfer dioxide to see if this web address is mentioned. This TSB is also for sale on the Toyota web site by subscription I believe.
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This is BGS. I have won my arbitration with Toyota. I stressed in my case that the value of the vehicle was the major issue besides health. I pointed out that if two vehicles were exactly the same; one exception being the Sulphur smell, what vehicle would you purchase. I do however have to pay a mileage offset. I still lose about $5000.00 in the end, but I will get most of my money baack. Toyota must pay all taxes and registration back as well. Arbitration in my case was worth the wait. Now I can go and buy a vehicle that doesn't stink. The only ground that Toyota would stand on was that due to the lack of poor quality crude in our world market, there is more sulphur in our gas, thus your vehicle smells. |
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