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#51 of 2033 pricing by alpha01 Jan 21, 2004 (9:01 am)
Anyone have any guesses as to when Toyota will release pricing info on the tC, given that this vehicle should be launching in June?   Also, any thoughts on whether this car will kill the Celica off for good? The tC has more torque, more innovative features (tilting rear seatback, panorama roof), more room, better styling inside and out (subjective, yes), and offers a supercharger. The Celica is waxing geriatric, and in light of the expectations for this car, overpriced. I want this kick-butt new Scion to steal sales from the overrated Acura RSX, but if so, it will likely be stealing sales from the stale-ish Celica as well.   ~alpha
#52 of 2033 gee35coupe by pzev Jan 21, 2004 (9:01 am)
re: price   I don't know if it's all that smart. This car will probably come in around $18k. I thought Scion was about the younger buyers. Can many of these younger buyers even afford $18k cars? Then you have a big percentage of them that are going to want the supercharger option which will bump the price even higher.   I think there would have been enough demand to have a non-sunroof, no 17-inch alloy wheel, etc. version. A lot of the kids want to change the wheels anyway but they already paid for nice 17-inch ones. Some don't care about a hole in the roof. These things are only pushing the price of the car higher.   Any word on where the car is being built? If it's in Japan then I can't see how the car will be under 18k, if it is it'll be just barely. And with Scion's no-haggle pricing like Saturn this is going to be an expensive car for a lot of younger people.   And don't forget the $500 SE regional fees that toyota dealers charge in the southeast US. This car is going to be out of my price range, I won't be looking at it. I can't imagine a lot of younger buyers, especially in this economy, that can afford $18k cars.
#53 of 2033 alpha01 by pzev Jan 21, 2004 (9:08 am)
All the info I've seen from supposed "insiders" (take this with a grain of salt) the car will be around 18k. Notice how Toyota only says it'll be under 20k. If by some miracle they can charge 17k or less for this car then they need to make a sedan version and they would sell like hotcakes. of course that would hurt Camry sales so I doubt we'll see that happen.   If the Celica goes away then this coupe won't be hurting other cars in the Toyota line-up except maybe the Solara. This car should help Toyota's image with younger buyers but I'm wondering how many can really afford the car if it really does turn out to be 18k or more.   Actually 18k is pretty good if you can haggle and knock it down a $1,000 and/or get rebates. I don't think this car is going to be made in high volumes (I think I read about 30,000 will be made a year) and include the no-haggle Scion pricing and being 18k or more is simply too high, at least for me.
#54 of 2033 pzev by alpha01 Jan 21, 2004 (9:08 am)
The economy (market/portfolio wise) is in better shape than in many recent years. Compared to competing products, the tC will undercut, if priced at $18,000 with all the standard features (optional on other cars) by thousands. I'm not just talking higher echelon cars, I'm also talking cars like they Hyundai Tiburon GT V6, Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V, etc. Even at $18,000, the tC would barely be more expensive than a Civic EX coupe.   ~alpha
#55 of 2033 alpha01 by pzev Jan 21, 2004 (9:33 am)
I guess I'm a bit biased because the two major standard equipment included with the Scion, the panorama sunroof and 17-inch alloys, I don't care about. The only other thing this car really has is the better sound system but beyond that the standard equipment is pretty typical of other cars.   Also there's no sign of side airbags being standard, and I'm curious if it's even an option. That matters much more to me than the sunroof and I would prefer 16-inch alloys versus 17-inch. Also the car is going to be about 3,000 pounds so not sure how fast it'll be.   Add in the cost of 17-inch tires which are more expensive to replace versus 16-inch, higher insurance for coupes, and the possibility of the car being a hot item for thieves (if the sound system is any good it may prove to be a popular item for thieves) then I just can't see myself getting this car.   This is just me personally though. It just forces a lot of stuff I don't want, and doesn't have things I do want. I don't like Hondas for this reason as well, it's either take it or leave it.
#56 of 2033 And I buy Honda's for the same reason by gee35coupe Jan 21, 2004 (9:57 am)
It takes the difficulty out of finding the car that you want. You choose the color and drive away. With all that content, a sub $20k price, and Toyota quality, the car is a steal. Even if 18 year olds can't afford it, there are a lot of older folk looking for a car like this. For us this car is almost free.
#57 of 2033 gee35coupe by pzev Jan 23, 2004 (4:41 pm)
"With all that content, a sub $20k price, and Toyota quality, the car is a steal. Even if 18 year olds can't afford it, there are a lot of older folk looking for a car like this. For us this car is almost free."   Which begs the question, are more older people going to buy this car than the younger crowd and destroy the point of what Scion is about?   They go to the trouble of making the Scion brand to seperate itself from Toyota to be more youth-oriented, but then you see 30+ year olds driving around in the tC. This could take effect on the brand as a whole.   They should cheapen down the price and cut out some of the content so the person can spend their money elsewhere like on 18" wheels or the supercharger or whatever. The supercharger is going to be dealer-installed so they have to pay for labor costs as well and it's only going to make around 200hp. I think I heard it'll end up costing 3k-4k, but no confirmation yet.   For that price they could have made a coupe version of the MR2 with RWD. Have the coupe with at least a bit of luggage space, drop in the Celica engine and you might have a car that the youth would crave for. It'll be too expensive but not sure the tC is a car they'll be craving for.   In my opinion the tC is a conservative attempt at winning the youth crowd but at the same time guaranteeing sucess. This car is more about features and equipment for the price, and bland styling to appeal to as many people as possible, including the 30+ year olds.   This seems like a completely different story from the xB, which is cheaper and at least while the "coolness" factor is there, is getting the kids in the showroom.   The Echo and Corolla are too blobby to stir any excitement, and dropping the Celica engine in the Corolla just doesn't make much sense. They need to do like Honda and at least have a coupe version of the Corolla.   Now Wards auto is reporting after talking to a guy from Toyota USA that the Supra isn't coming to compete with the 350Z, RX-8, etc. The Celica looks as if it'll be dropped altogether, the MR2 will be dropped, so what do you have left? A souped up Corolla and the Camry Solara?   This is why Honda even has the S2000 and NSX. I'm sure these cars aren't exactly huge profit makers for them, especially in the limited numbers they're sold, but people talk about these cars, this is something the youth can crave for.   The tC may end up appealing to the older crowd looking for a good deal rather than the youth crowd that's looking for something cool and with power. Of course this is speculation at this point.
#58 of 2033 also.. by pzev Jan 23, 2004 (5:00 pm)
Forgot to mention the article says they're going to make the FJ Cruiser concept, but no Supra. This is basically a small SUV on a truck platform. Just what Toyota needs, yet another SUV.
#59 of 2033 pzev by alpha01 Jan 23, 2004 (5:17 pm)
My opinion is that you're pretty far off. Speaking from my personal situation, once I start working full time, I WILL be in a position to buy a $20,000 sporty-type car. I dont need rip-roaring V8 power, just enough to facilitate some smiles, and attack some back roads. I'm 22, and a Scion tC- especially a supercharged model- might be just the ticket for me-interesting shape, strong engine, available manual transmission, Toyota reputation for dependability, no-haggle/ no hassle sales experience, good price/value/features equation, room for 3 friends and luggage.....   Comparing a $20K Scion tC (supercharged) to a RSX Type S, a Celica GT-S, an Eclipse GT-S... its going to be 4 to 5 grand cheaper. Against similarly priced vehicles like the Tiburon GT V6, Corolla XRS, Sentra SE-Spec V, Civic Si... its going to have more power and torque, a more unique image, more interesting interior....   I feel this car is going to be a winner. ~alpha
#60 of 2033 Toyo has plenty of SUVs..... by andys120 Jan 23, 2004 (5:43 pm)
but not a small one to compete with the Wrangler and Defender. A new FJ40 roughly the size and off-road capability of the original would be way cool and I'm not even a truck lover.

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