Last post on Sep 30, 2013 at 4:14 PM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru, Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon
Your Community Leaders are ateixeira and rsholland.
#9122 of 10838 Re: C&D Long Term Test [samiam_68]
Jul 05, 2006 (10:11 am)
I was intrigued by how many problems C&D experienced with their LGT. Their experience was, unfortunately, not typical for most Subaru owners. I have an '05 LGT Ltd wagon 5MT, and the only problem I've incurred in 41k miles (other than some annoying rattles) is a dead headlight bulb. I'd guess that most other Legacy owners would have experiences closer to mine than to C&D.
Incidentally, Automobile Magazine did a Four Seasons report with the 2005 Legacy GT wagon a little while back. Their one year evaluation of the car was a much more satisfying experience, and they issued the car an "All-Star" accolade. So, an opinion is just an opinion and everyone has one of their own.
I'd like to thank C&D for writing about the suspension mods they did to the LGT. It was great to hear from a trusted source how the Tein Flex coilovers work on the LGT (I was considering doing that modification myself). Unfortunately, where they seemed to have missed the boat with this is that they never addressed the USDM smaller rear swaybar which is what contributes most to the LGT's lean in cornering (the JDM Legacy has a larger swaybar). If they had fully investigated the LGT suspension, they would have realized that they should have upgraded the swaybars--and then, if still desireable, add the coilovers to the setup.
#9123 of 10838 Re: C&D Long Term Test [samiam_68]
Jul 05, 2006 (10:25 am)
Can't comment on the bearings, rough idle or weak clutch (not sure what the mean by weak clutch) since I have not experienced these probs on my 00 OB or my current 05 OB XTL.
I can attest to the notchy shifter, and less than impressive auto climate control, although granted, I have no basis for comparison given this is my first vehicle with auto climate control. That said, I find it strange that on a sunny day I need to turn my temperature control to almost 25.5 degrees C (80 degrees F) in order to avoid being frozen by the A/C, and maintain a comfortable cabin temp. There are many days when I think the system is a waste of money.
I take the comfort comment with a grain of salt....it is a very personal thing which is influenced by personal preferences, body type etc. What's comfortable for one may not be comfortable for the other. My wife and I find the seats snug and very supportive, and they fit me (being 6'4") very well. My mother on the other hand, found them much too narrow for her problematic hips and requires cushion.
#9124 of 10838 Re: C&D Long Term Test [mountnman4u]
Jul 05, 2006 (12:40 pm)
were you the one asking about Tein Flex coilovers in the modifications topic? I don't remember ever seeing a reply to my comment that the spring rates were too high.
#9125 of 10838 06 outback brake pedal
Jul 05, 2006 (2:32 pm)
Hi, I am a new subaru outback owner. Just bought a 06 outback 2.5i a month ago. Now it has 850miles on it. I have a question to ask you guys about the brake pedal. Should a normal pedal work as follows? When the engine is off, the brake pedal supposedly is very hard, as you put your foot on it, you can feel that. Right after you turn on the engine, the pedal becomes soft and goes down a certain distance. If this is normal, then mine has some problem: it is soft when the engine is not turned on. But it can be pumped up to be hard if I use the foot to pump it. I am very concerned about the brake because I think this is the most important part on a car. And my old Accord actually has the same feeling (soft when engine is off). But when I first bought the Accord, it was hard when engine is off. So, now with the soft pedal on the Accord, I feel that the stopping distance is longer. Now with the new outback, I have the same 'long stopping distance' feeling. I just want to ask you guys about your cars, see if it's because there's a problem with my car or it's normal to all outback. I asked my friend who just bought a Legacy sedan, he said his pedal is hard when engine is not turned on. Thank you guys for any information.
#9126 of 10838 Re: C&D Long Term Test [samiam_68]
Jul 05, 2006 (3:36 pm)
That's surprising to hear that C&D gave to car such a poor review. I have an '05 GT 5 Speed and I've never had a problem, nor would I call the shifter "notchy".
The Climate control, however is a different story. They are right on the money with that one. It would be a great system if I drove refrigerator truck. Granted I live in always warm
SoCal but the car always tries to freeze me out, and never disengages the recalculated air. The dealer insists there is nothing wrong with it. Anyway I fixxed the problem by never using the Auto setting.
#9127 of 10838 Re: 06 outback brake pedal [gogeter]
Jul 05, 2006 (3:42 pm)
That's normal operation. With the engine off, the brake booster still has some reserve vacuum left in it, hence if you pump the brake pedal a couple of times, you will use up the vacuum and the pedal will become hard.
#9128 of 10838 Re: 06 outback brake pedal [gogeter]
Jul 05, 2006 (6:45 pm)
My wife's 2.5i LTD wagon is 3 weeks old and I've only driven it a few times, but I think the brakes feel OK. Some vehicles, notably every GM truck I've ever driven and many of their cars, have a lot of slack (feels like 3") before you get any whoa. And all cars will develop more slack as the pads wear down, but that just makes them feel really great after you replace the pads. Try it on your Honda and see. If the Sube really feels too soft with the engine running, ask your dealer to check it. The brakes may not have been bled properly at the factory or there could be a leak.
#9129 of 10838 Re: C/D Long Term Test [samiam_68]
Jul 05, 2006 (7:03 pm)
The C/D car had the OPTIONAL short-throw shifter so they did everyone (except those who bought it) a favor by pointing out that you're probably better off without it. If I'd bought it and was unhappy I'd ask Subaru to refund the $700 and put the standard shifter in.
Because of C/D I'll know to watch the wheel bearings carefully when the warranty period is about over. They also did us a favor by pointing out that both headlights were replaced under warranty at 29,000 miles! It wouldn't have occurred to me to ask. I have silently cursed Nissan every time I've changed those dang bulbs, at least five or six of them over the past five years. Yes, I know you can't touch them or get them dirty and have been scrupulous about it. The mounting system in my Maxima is really lame, so I think the bulbs are vibrating themselves to death or maybe even getting wet.
I'm willing to cut Subaru some slack on the clutch, because you know it gets a lot more "exercise" than normal when the magazine is doing all its performance testing. An AWD car puts a lot more stress on its clutch than 2wd, since there's little or no wheelspin. Notice that they didn't wear out the tires?
#9130 of 10838 Re: C&D Long Term Test [samiam_68]
Jul 06, 2006 (4:32 am)
Car & Driver published a long term test of the Legacy GT. The car was reported to be quite problematic as well as having aspects of poor design, some specific items being the usual Subaru weak points:
- Wheel bearings
- Rough idle
- Weak clutch
- Notchy shifter
- Climate control
- Seat comfort
Why can't Subaru, after all these years and complaints, fix what seem to be very simple shortcomings?
Which model do you own?
What is very clear is that C&D beat the h#ll out of this car, as their apologetic introduction notes. And their concluding statement is "...the powerful and practical Legacy will not soon be forgotten."
You can search forums like ultimatesubaru.net and others to see that wheel bearings seldom fail under 100,000 miles - pretty much like any other car, as the wheel bearings are pretty standard parts. Driving it like you stole it probably doesn't help, don't you think?
Rough idle was due to a faulty fuel injector, misdiagnosed by the dealer although it ocurred before introduction of diesel fuel into the fuel tank!
Weak clutch comes from trying to put 200+ whp through an AWD system that doesn't allow wheelspin. The loads are astronomical. Very few owners on legacygt.com not problems with transmissions - even those drag racing. Who needs a new flywheel after 40K miles? The 20 somethings who get to drive free cars at C&D.
Seat comfort is very individual. I like mine. A telescopic steering wheel would be a plus.
Notchy shifter after installing a short throw kit is a "duh."
That the Legacy falls short of the inevitable comparison with something with a blue and white prop logo is unsurprising. Even though on most road courses the Subaru would distance itself from almost any 3-series.
C&D should learn quickly that with the growth of internet forums, the automotive press is irrelevent. Why listen to 20 something interns writing about a car when you can read what real owners think?
#9131 of 10838 Re: C&D Long Term Test [garandman]
Jul 06, 2006 (7:04 am)
What is very clear is that C&D beat the h#ll out of this car, as their apologetic introduction notes.
But they do that to every car in their fleet so you can't blame that for what they perceive as shortcomings.