Last post on Sep 30, 2013 at 4:14 PM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru, Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon
Your Community Leaders are ateixeira and rsholland.
#90 of 10838 Great suggestions
Aug 17, 2003 (5:12 pm)
I'm considering cars to replace my 1995 Volvo 850 turbowagon, and the 2005 Legacy as well as the Forester XT are in the running. People's comments about features and preferences are making me realize how hard it will be to replace.
A partial list of features: My Volvo tows up to 3300 lbs, has a high quality tan leather interior, three-way memory seats for both driver and passenger, dual-zone heating/AC with easy-to-use dials, more options for directing the air flow than most other cars, a stereo with big buttons and separate buttons for FM 1 & 2 and AM 1 & 2. This is important to me because my kids use FM2 and AM2 and I use FM1 and AM1, and having separate buttons rather than a sequential selector makes life a lot easier.
The car accelerates about as well as an XT AT but gets better gas mileage. It handles much better and stops better than an XT. It is roomier than the current Legacy, and I can't imagine a Subaru being more reliable than it has been. There are a number of things I like about the Subaru models in comparison to other cars including the current Volvo models, but I wonder if I will have to give up too much even with the new Legacy. Since it looks like and runs almost like new, I may decide to keep the Volvo and make any repairs until something catastrophic happens. At that point, though, I want to be able to know what I want to replace it with.
Maybe Subaru should offer something that Vovlo offers according to Edmunds' full test of the 1996 Volvo turbo: $250,000 to the estate of any occupant killed as the result of an accident. I never knew about this, and I'm not sure I want my family to know.
#91 of 10838 Memory Seats
Aug 17, 2003 (5:46 pm)
Thanks subewannabe. This is going tp make the choice between a Passat GLX and the subaru even harder..........hmmmmm.
Aug 17, 2003 (6:07 pm)
A bunch of us here are hoping (praying!) the new Legacy and Outback will match the Volvo's 3300 pound towing. If not the Legacy, certainly the Outback, since that model will more likely to see towing duty.
#93 of 10838 We all want different things
Aug 18, 2003 (5:48 am)
The current Outback is a strange beast. I bought a well-equiped base wagon and paid $20,700, which is well-within the standard Accord/Camry/Altima price range. Considering my OBW has much more cargo room, AWD and some off-road prowess and towing ability, I can view it as a bargain. At the other end of the scale, Subaru must have a much harder time pushing product. Once you hit the $30K mark your options grow exponentially because "luxury" brands come into play.
I personally thought about getting a Limited wagon but at the same price ($27-28K) I could get an Audi A4 Avant Quattro 1.8T. It's somewhat of a different beast but the loss-leader Audi has a surprisingly long list of standard features (even if you have to sit on cloth) and Quattro is probably the best AWD system on the market.
If people are clamoring for more towing/power I think Subaru should create a new larger model to meet these needs rather than bloat up the Outback. Remember that the Outback is the anti-SUV, featuring better handling, ride and gas mileage than your standard SUV. If you make it bigger, heavier, and more powerful then some of its "unique" market positioning is lost. I just filled up my OBW for the first time and got 21.7mpg...not too bad for a virgin engine driven in an urban environment with the A/C on all the time. I don't want to see that dip into the sub-20mpg region just so I can tow 3500 lbs.
Although I'm probably in the minority here, I think Subaru could make the 5spd gearing a little longer. I'm going to look under my hood to see if somebody stuck in a small turbo because I am continually surprised by how much power the flat-4 provides especially down low. No, it's not sports sedan fast but it's very driveable in almost any situation I've encountered (which includes daily highway merges). There's just no way the 0-60 rating on this vehicle is 10.5 seconds. It feels like the upper 8's/lower 9's to me. Subaru could make 5th gear longer for better gas mileage because the engine turns over at about 3800rpm when you are crusing at 80mph.
#94 of 10838 Leather + Moonroof = lots of content
Aug 18, 2003 (7:04 am)
Pilot doesn't offer stability control, not last time I checked. You have to move up to an MDX. In terms of content, the MDX is closer to the VDC than the Pilot is. I also think it doesn't offer a moonroof, same thing, you have to get an MDX.
So really a Pilot only compares to the cloth/moonroof-free Outback H6.
FWIW, One pop-up camper manufacturer actually came out with a small model under 2k lbs and they market it to Outback owners, among others.
I'm not sure I want my family to know LOL!
Right now, the Outback and Forester are the models that Subaru includes a harness for towing, so they expect those models to tow most often. They're also the logical choices for any towing capacity upgrades.
#95 of 10838 More Towing
Aug 18, 2003 (10:55 am)
At 2000 (auto)and 2400 (manual), there is still a fairly decent number of smaller popups that you can tow easily with the Outback (and Forester for that matter), particularly with the manual. What you're basically losing is the higher end ones.
I think this also came up on the Forester board and the real problem IMO is SOA's refusal to make it's tow specs as high as in other countries (Australia) for the same vehicle. In some respects this isn't a matter of more power--at least up to 3000 lbs--it's only a matter of acknowledging that the capability is already there. If they did this, there would actually be few popup campers that one -couldn't- tow assuming the popup was properly equipped with brakes.
I tend to "over-vent" on this issue, but it's really about the only issue I have with the utility of these vehicles.
#96 of 10838 Keep in mind...
Aug 18, 2003 (1:32 pm)
if you don't have trailer brakes, the limit is 1000 pounds not 2000 or 2400 pounds.
That's why I want Subaru to offer some sort of braking assist as part of a tow package: Larger brakes? Extra brake calibers? Something that will allow for light unbraked trailers (under 2000 pounds) to be towed, using their full capacity. As I've said many times before, here in Maryland you won't find trailers rated under 3000 pounds with brakes, because they're not required by law. Most other states have similar laws.
So the net result, if you follow Subaru's trailering rules, more than likely you can tow no more than 1000 pounds. For most people the 2000/2400 pound rating is bogus.
BTW, Volvo and other brands also have similar trailer brake restrictions. It's not just Subaru.
#97 of 10838 Bob--Brakes
Aug 18, 2003 (2:07 pm)
I have seen you post on this previously, but don't many pop up trailers in the 2000 lb range come standard with electric brakes now?
Not trying to go too OT here.
#98 of 10838 I don't know
Aug 18, 2003 (2:13 pm)
I've only looked at utility trailers. My guess is probably not—unless they're required by law in your state. Some states require trailers over 2000 pounds to have brakes. Most states are in the 3000 pound range, before brakes are required.
#99 of 10838 Outback
Aug 18, 2003 (5:41 pm)
They should make a larger model for the towing people who want to tack on a small camper. Or, take your Outback/Forester to an aftermarket conversion shop and have them install a pop-up bed that folds down onto the floor of the trunk. You'd lose some cargo space- but spend less trying to stay at the Holiday Inn. I always wonder why we can't take a Nissan Quest/Toyota Sienna/Honda Odyssey and have them install a infatable air-bed built into the car or something. I don't want a chevrolet Astro.