Last post on Sep 30, 2013 at 4:14 PM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru, Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon
Your Community Leaders are ateixeira and rsholland.
#3297 of 10838 Re: Perspective...and praise [jon_in_ct]
Jul 30, 2004 (7:59 pm)
I should stop now. Indeed, I fully intend for this to be my last comment on this subject. I apologize to all of those who have had enough.
I'm not an engineering match for almost everyone - if not everyone - who has addressed this issue. But, I must be missing something here??
Granted, the IIHS test result is disturbing. But, doesn't the Toyota Camry recall, after the good rating from IIHS, suggest SOME caution and raise SOME questions about the test?
And, doesn't the comprative excellence of the Subarau in the NCAP tests count for anything??!! The Subaru outperformed EVERY car tested/listed by the Austalian NCAP. With 5 Stars, it surpassed these vehicles (all with dual front, side and head bags): Mercedees M class, Range Rover, Audi A4, BMW 3 class, Honda Accord Euro, Mazda 6, Passat and the Volvo S80. It also scored higher, in aggregate, than other 5 Star rated: Volvo S40 (2004), Volvo XC 90 and BMW X5. That is, scored higher in the same tests!! In most cases, the differences were in the front offset crashes. Should we be concerned about everyone of these cars that performed worse than the Subaru on the same, front/front offset crash tests? Shouldn't all of these vehicles be taken off everyone's lists, too?
Admiitedly, I'm a layperson - a historian by training and an organizer and political activist, by vocation and avocation So, I really am out of my depth on the engineering/science of this. But, I don't think I'm stupid. I AM concerned about the IIHS test and eagerly await tests on the wagons (Legacy and, especially, OB). But, if the Subaru out-scores/performs all of these other vehicles in the SAME tests...seems to me that this is important. The OB at least equalled or surpassed all of the vehicles, listed above, on the NCAP side impact test (which some have dismissed, in comparison to the IIHS test); and, it surpassed ALL of them on the front crash tests!
Seems to me that the TOTAL package re:safety is superior. Since I cannot choose how I'm going to be hit/crash should that ever happen, the NCAP tests, at least, suggest that one would be hard-pressed to find overall/total protection better than the Subaru.
OK, I'm done with this subject.
#3298 of 10838 Re: iPod EQ settings [kens]
Jul 30, 2004 (8:50 pm)
Ken, I have found that the Bass Booster works pretty well for the low end sound. Most of the treble comes through my system pretty well. The same setting sounds pretty good through cheap headphones, too.
Best thing to do is just find a rather loud, monotonous song (rap would work and play around with each setting. Every album has a different tone quality to start with, depending on what the audio engineers did to the original tunes.
I have to admit am having WAY too much fun with the OB, the iPod, and FM. (Does anyone speak in whole words these days?)
#3299 of 10838 Re: Perspective...and praise [rsorganize]
Jul 30, 2004 (9:17 pm)
FWIW, I may have even less engineering knowledge than you, and will say right up front that I would not permit this issue alone to stop me from buying the car. Frankly, I'm still somewhat more bothered by the braking issue that surfaced here recently.
That said, my concern is not how well Subaru performs *relative to other vehicles* in tests. My concern is whether the vehicle provides a sufficient level of real world side impact protection. To the extent the Aussie test would indicate that it does, so much the better. To the extent the IIHS test, and, in particular, the remarks of the official quoted above, indicate that the vehicle does not, that *has* to be seen as something of a negative IMO, unless one wants to dismiss a seemingly reputable testing body and its work--regardless of whether there are conflicting reports from elsewhere.
The other issue that I believe is at work here is that Subaru markets on safety--not as much as Volvo perhaps, but to a considerable extent. When a company creates expectations, it also can expect disappointment at the first sign those expectations may not be fulfilled.
#3300 of 10838 Newest perspectives
Jul 30, 2004 (9:37 pm)
Base 2.5i, Champagne Gold/Granite Grey
1. Nearly 4k miles, and nary a rattle or suspicious noise. Very quiet, comfy, nimble, and I still pinch myself every time I climb in!
2. Brake dust on the wheels is less now, so I am assuming the brakes will soon quit making a mess on my clear car
3. No one yet makes an iPod dock connector for the Subaru-specific audio harness. Keep watching those boards, though, because they can't be far off. Adapters for other models are coming out every day. We've all caught the "Beemer bug".
4. MPG still creeping up. I averaged well over 27mpg on a mostly highway trip across town, about 80 miles round trip. Average mpg for these last 100 miles is up to around 24.3...not bad for mostly city driving. Probably would have been better had I discovered that nail in my left rear tire sooner...
5. Anyone else having problems with your headlights blinding oncoming traffic? I've been flashed several tmes (headlights, that is I am certain folks think I have my brights on. I will have the dealer check those when I go in for another oil change (soon).
PS: on a funny side note: last night at a homeowners association meeting (I am a board member), we had a local police officer as a guest speaker talking about block watch, and specifically about watching for car thieves. In his attempt to make up an example, he said "Let's say there's this guy trying to steal a champagne gold SUV"...I had to blurt out loud, "Hey! Wait a minute...that's MY car!" Everyone in the room had a good chuckle out of that.
#3301 of 10838 VDC necessary with AWD?
Jul 31, 2004 (12:33 am)
Hi. I am seriously considering buying a Legacy/Outback, but one concern is VDC/ESP. TO get VDC, I should get a VDC model which is the mose expensive one. Does VDC really work even if it is AWD?
The VDC model of Outback has almost similar price tag with VW passat v6 GLX w/ 4Motion. How would you guys compare with VW passat?
I live in Calgary, Canada, and wehave tons of snowl, so I need little bit more og fround clearance. So I'm into outback turbo or VDC.
#3302 of 10838 Re: Perspective...and praise [rsorganize]
Jul 31, 2004 (5:18 am)
"Granted, the IIHS test result is disturbing. But, doesn't the Toyota Camry recall, after the good rating from IIHS, suggest SOME caution and raise SOME questions about the test?"
rsorganize- Im not quite clear on what that sentence means. The recall of the Camry's side impact aibags seems to be incredibly similar in nature to the one that affected 140 early Legacies, and involved improper manufacture/installation. Certainly, the Camry that the IIHS tested with the optional Side Curtain airbags and accompanying seat mounted chest airbags, didnt suffer from any issue.
So what is exactly is the caution/concern that is raised?
The NCAP side impact tests are an incredibly good waste of money. The barrier that strikes the vehicle is closest in profile to an early 80s midsize, is non-deformable, AND NHTSA merits stars in the side impact WITHOUT factoring in Head Injury Criterion (HIC), even though that measure is taken. Basically, anything with a higher center of gravity (minivans, SUVs, p/u) get 5 stars. How is that a valid comparison?
#3303 of 10838 Re: [ateixeira]
Jul 31, 2004 (9:39 am)
Reply to #2759
"I'm surprised the 2.5i's brakes are bigger than the Outback's, but the point above it valid - if it has enough power to lock the brakes, bigger rotors will primarily only help in reducing brake fade."
Though this post was sometime ago, I just wanted to respond:
Yes, larger rotors will primarily only help in reducing brake fade. But what about hauling full vehicle loads or towing, then the brake fade becomes much more of an issue when either braking normally or in an emergency. It is a shame that the Outbacks don't have the bigger brakes like the GT given the performance specs for the XT and 3.0 models. What was Subaru thinking when specing these vehicles for brakes that are more upscale, heavier, and just as powerful as the GT?
I also would take issue with the stock tires Subaru has choosen, i.e. Bridgestone Potenzas. Web searches on tire reviews like those on tirerack.com, will show that these tires are not well received by their owners for wear, handling on wet and snow covered surfaces.
These are the only major issues I can come up with (for now) that I'd like Subaru to address in future revisions.
Jul 31, 2004 (11:03 am)
Let's be serious. The IIHS test also needs to be addressed by Subaru, especially if the brand is going to continue to tout its committment to safety. IMO, its not a deal stopper (obviously it wasnt for me), but it merits due attention.
Also, I have Bridgestone Potenzas on my Nissan Sentra 2.5, and I litterally have NO complaints. I actually think they are a great tire for the price, and in 28,000 miles, Ive had no wet handling/braking OR snow issues. The Pirelli P400s on our Camry are better, in fact I think they are the best non-performance tire going, but they are also more expensive.
Jul 31, 2004 (12:13 pm)
As I have said many times before, there are numerous variations of the RE-92. The RE-92A on the 05 Outback (I own one now) have a high TW rating and are pretty good tires, as were the ones on my previous 02 Outback -- they had plenty of tread left at 45000miles and were great in rain and snow. For non-performance all season tires, I'd say they have been some of the best tires I have owned. No complaints at all.
Other variations of the RE-92, like the ones that came on my WRX, have a low TW rating and are not so good in the rain or snow once they wear down. These are probably the RE-92s that people are complaining about. They are OEM tires on numerous vehicles. I probably would not buy these tires.
So, be careful about making blanket statements regarding the RE-92 and the choice of tires on the Outback until you know which specific tire is involved! It's unfortunate that TireRack lumps all the RE-92 comments into one place -- it seems to mislead a lot of people.
#3306 of 10838 Re: VDC necessary with AWD? [briancalgary]
Jul 31, 2004 (12:19 pm)
Brian, I think the 05 Outback compares quite favorably against the Passat. Outbacks have always been great cars, and they added a nice dose of styling for the 05 model that is as good as anything from VW (or Audi for that matter).
AWD will keep you out of trouble for the most part, especially if driven sensibly in foul weather. Having owned many Subarus and being a skier, I can say that the cars will soldier through some pretty rough winter weather without a sweat.
VDC gives you an extra margin of safety and stability, and I would consider it a great feature in those scenarios where things happen fast and you could potentially get in trouble (accident avoidance, etc..). VDC will detect any sort of yaw or deviation from the intended course, and do whatever it can to keep the car going straight and maintain stability.
If you want the untimate in safety and stability, get the VDC. If you just need a car capable of handling winter weather, any model will suffice.
BTW, different models and transmission combos have different types of AWD systems. They're all good in the snow, but have differences that affect handling and gas mileage on dry roads.