Last post on Feb 26, 2013 at 5:40 AM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru, Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon
Your Community Leaders are ateixeira and rsholland.
#2303 of 10833 RE: Maintenance Offer & OB XT Legacy GT
Jun 21, 2004 (7:22 pm)
Maintenance Offer - Let's put it this way - I've owned nothing but Subarus (5) since 1998 - registered in need-desire.com when it came up and registered in mysubaru.com and we got the offer. I think that if you wait a week or two , if you are in one of the above you may see the offer in the mail. IF you can swing it I strongly suggest you purchase (not lease) and IF possible get the GT Limited. We were fortunate to get the first one (Sedan w/5EAT) at our dealer. I think you will be more than pleased. Subaru is out to sell cars and the push is on for both the Outback and the Legacy. Keep in mind Subaru has worked hard to separate the two models and IMHO has done it to a T.
OB XT or Legacy GT - Again my vote (we bought) the GT Limited. I think you will be pleased with either that best fills your needs and or wants.
#2304 of 10833 More 5EAT and 5MT test drives
Jun 21, 2004 (8:26 pm)
Okay, so in my continuing debate on which one to get, I went back to the dealer to try a 5MT and 5EAT GT back-to-back.
This time, I drove a GT Ltd 5MT sedan with the optional short throw shifter w/Momo knob. I personally did not care for the short throw shifter as it looked out of proportion to the dash like some overgrown metallic mushroom. While the throws were definitely shorter, I didn't like the added effort. Not for me, thanks.
Back to the engine. The 5MT definitely feels solid off the line. Power is right there and helped me to cut across three lanes on the road outside of the dealership to get onto the freeway on ramp. Down and upshifting on the freeway was smooth thanks to the improved flywheel and it's easy to keep drivetrain shock to a minimum. With the 5MT I could really get a feel for this fantastic engine. It just pulls so linearly it makes it feel like a bigger displacement NA engine. Pure fun.
Back to the dealership, I get into a 5EAT Ltd Wagon. Trying to cut across the same road wasn't as much fun. The wagon moves along leisurely until the RPMs hit around 2500-3000 and then things take off. I drove the exact same course as with the sedan.
Merging onto freeway traffic requires some pre-planning as you need to wait for the turbo to completely spool up. Once things got moving, the shifting using the steering wheel buttons seemed quick enough. What I think subtracts from the 5EAT feel of "quickness" is the fact that there is so little drivetrain shock. You'll thumb the button and need to do a double take to see that it had in fact downshifted.
While smoothness is good, the tranny does take away from feeling in control with the engine. I hated to think of it, but I felt that my wife's Jetta VR6 automatic seemed to have better throttle response. It's not as powerful, but tap the throttle and the car moves forward.
So, I'm seriously considering doing an about-face and having the dealer change my order for a 5MT. I really want VTD and I also wanted the flexibility of a wife-friendly car, but I'm just not getting the warm fuzzies from Sportshift. I think I'm living a true need-desire dilemma here!
#2305 of 10833 Re: More 5EAT and 5MT test drives [kens #2304]
Jun 21, 2004 (10:36 pm)
Ken, I can understand your delima... my wife does not want to learn how to drive the 5MT, so I'm stuck getting the 5EAT with the sportshift. I have the same concern about the quickness of shifting with the 5EAT. My mechanic is checking to see if there is anything he could do about it...
#2306 of 10833 Re: Richard [c_hunter #2299]...and, Sportshift
Jun 22, 2004 (6:33 am)
Thanks, Craig...it IS sweet. The more I drive - and look at - it, the more happy I am that I bought it. (Am I supposed to be happy?)
Strikes me that the Sportshift, when left to operate on its own, makes the car MUCH quicker. My 13 year old, who desperately wanted me to buy the OB XT Ltd MT, thinks this almost makes the VDC worthwhile. Are there any limitations on the use of the Sportshift - the manual doesn't offer much information?
Jun 22, 2004 (6:49 am)
Congrats Richard, you may have the first '05 VDC among us.
Coincidentally, I just read in Autoweek that you are 7 (or was it 8?) times more likely to get in a collision in a skid if you do not have stability control. So know that and be happier than Woody Allen.
Thomas: the WRX is the performance bargain, or an F-XT if you need a little more space. I've seen 2004s dip below $23k, and those are plenty of fun.
I just double-checked something - our coupon was in my brother's name. He just bought a 2004 Legacy, so the name must've been fresh in their database. My wife has a 2002 Legacy and did *not* get the coupon. I registered at need-desire and I didn't get one, either.
Ken: keep in mind the wagon is a bit heavier. You should have driven a manual wagon and an auto sedan! Time to go back again...LOL!
I'll be in the same position when I'm shopping, though. I think on an F-XT I'd go with the manual, but with the Legacy GT I'd go for the VTD and the extra ratio plus the Sportshift buttons.
I can't believe I'm even saying that. But - in my case I have two cars and the other is a manual.
Jun 22, 2004 (7:00 am)
I know you said you weren't considering the H-6, but you may want to take one out for a test drive. The power is more linear than that of the turbo, and it is a 5EAT/SportShift, but not with the button-shifting feature. You've got nothing to lose by driving one ahead of time.
Jun 22, 2004 (7:24 am)
What you're describing is exactly the way turbocharged 4-cyl engines behave when coupled to an automatic transmission. The torque converter saps a smidge of power out of the engine, but more importantly, it alters the backpressure characteristics of the exhaust system somewhat, and this loads the turbo up less. The end result is that turbo lag is much more evident.
On a MT car, where there is a direct mechanical connection between the wheels and the engine, the resistance of the road loads up the engine which gets the exhaust flow going and spins up the turbo. On an AT car, the resistance of the road gets alleviated due to slippage in the torque converter. Thus, the engine sees less load, the exhaust flow is not as strong, and the turbo spools less.
You can study this effect on a MT car, at least the extremes of the effect. Put it in idle and rev the engine, and the turbo gauge barely moves. No load on the engine in that case equals low boost. Now, put the car in 1st with the parking brake on. Gently rev the motor as you let the clutch out, and the boost will rise dramatically. The load on the engine produces a much stronger exhaust flow. The auto transmission car is somewhere in between these two extremes.
So, if you want to extract all the fun out of that motor, MT is the only way to go. If you want a more livable solution and can sacrifice some power go with AT. The tradeoffs are simple!
Jun 22, 2004 (7:32 am)
The manual is crazy-stupid-fast.
The auto is merely stupid-fast.
#2311 of 10833 Ken - two things with the auto
Jun 22, 2004 (7:33 am)
1st - what Juice said - Wagon is heavier than the sedan, thus less slow
2nd - New Auto, thus the automatic has yet to adjust to your driving characteristics. So it seems sluggish. Once broken in, the car should seem more lively. Noticed this testdriving auto WRXs. One new, the other had been on the lot a while, and driven quite a bit. The new one seemed lethargic, the one that was driven took off like a bat out of hell!!!
One final note - from the link mentioned in post
(2273) ConsumerGuide report by rellom
the paragraph at the bottom states:
News: You might also look for a sportier Legacy sedan and/or wagon--with perhaps some 300 hp--to build on the sales-boosting image of Subaru's youth-favored Impreza WRX and STi models. Though strictly our guess, these hot Legacys are easily doable if Subaru wishes, though they probably wouldn't arrive until 2006 or '07.
#2312 of 10833 Craig's right...
Jun 22, 2004 (7:35 am)
about the turbo lag being more noticeable with an automatic. Unless the turbo is engineered to spool up just off idle (as they do on large turbo-diesel trucks), I'm afraid it's just going to be part of the equation.