Last post on Sep 30, 2013 at 4:14 PM
You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback
What is this discussion about?
Subaru, Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Sedan, Wagon
Your Community Leaders are ateixeira and rsholland.
#1228 of 10838 O.K., think I know why the HIDs and Navs are not an option
May 04, 2004 (7:02 am)
Price. Subaru feels they have to keep the Legacy GT under $30K, like they had to keep the WRX under $25K.
Subaru had this problem with the Outback and VDC models, in that they charged over $30K for them, then had to give significant incentives due to these cars not selling.
If the Legacy GTs take off sales wise, there might be a very good chance that things like Nav and HIDs might be brought in as options durring the refreshening period in a couple of years.
This happened with the WRX, when there were complaints of no sun-roof. With the 2004 refreshening, a premium package was added. Who is to say that a premium package in a year or two will not be added with xenon headlights and Nav?
I am curious to see how the vehicle does in the next year (very curious to hear the reviews, but expect them to be glowing).
In terms of the G35 vs. the Legacy, the G35 weighs more, but the interior and trunk might be very similiar. Unfortunately, I do not have the specifications of the new Legacy vs. the G35. The Legacy is supposed to weigh around 3200 lbs.and the G35 RWD manual weighing 3400 lbs.
May 04, 2004 (7:10 am)
I think NAV is a distraction, actually. Maybe if it can give voice commands, but I'm sure it takes your eyes and attention off the road.
Navi system in the 05 Acura RL streams real-time traffic data of major highways
I don't buy it, the real-time ski conditions report at Sky Liberty said they had 26" of packed powder while it was pouring rain. I was there, at the ski resort, and that's what they were claiming.
Garbage in, garbage out. Data is key, we agree, but who will truly give reliable data?
By the time the traffic info gets to you, it's no longer useful, you're already stuck in that traffic. I think it's very optimistic to think otherwise.
A level HID light on a Navigator still points directly in my eyes. Not all vehicles have headlights at the same level, is my point.
Options, sure, just don't build-in this cost for people that don't want it. When it's a safety feature, that's different. When it's a gizmo/toy that I'm not likely to use, it's just price padding.
I'll go one step further and say these could be accessories, rather than options, sold via SPT at dealers. Heck, just get that Garmin Palm, it's portable, color, and gives voice commands. That works for multiple cars, and it's cheap, $400 or so IIRC.
May 04, 2004 (7:13 am)
Fitz has a VDC on clearance for $26k and change.
Stability control is great, but Subaru packaged it with a gizmo/toy (the Mac stereo). When it was new they claimed it was some $4000 in high-end stereo hardware.
THAT was their mistake! People want VDC, but not coupled up to a nice but hyper-expensive stereo. $33k for a car that was inexpensive and built to stay that way? How did it sell? Not so good, even after $7k in discounts. Ouch.
So my position is make the safety stuff standard, the goodies should be options, not grouped together. That strategy failed miserably, the VDC is proof.
May 04, 2004 (7:21 am)
Majority of NAV's come with voice direction prompts.
Again, to each their own. That's why options are OPTIONS!!!
The G35 is larger than the Legacy with more luxo features, hence the weight.
I know this is a Subaru forum, but please, kill the biggetry.. :-p
#1232 of 10838 Re: [ateixeira #1229]
May 04, 2004 (7:32 am)
"A level HID light on a Navigator still points directly in my eyes. Not all vehicles have headlights at the same level, is my point."
They're not supposed to be level, they're supposed to point DOWN. If they're in your eyes, you're either staring straight into them intentionally, or they're not set properly on the Navigator (which is likely, I have to admit...SUV owners seem to go out of their way to be annoying sometimes. )
#1233 of 10838 Re: Nav debate [sebberry #1226]
May 04, 2004 (7:33 am)
If you go back over all the posts since the new legacy was just a dream you will see that most people will not pay 36KUSD not some as you say. As a matter of fact most people were highly insistant that the price stay below 30KUSD. As Kevin points out in post# 1228 When Subaru introduced the H6 and VDC at over 30KUSD they couldn't give them away.
They had to be heavily discounted to move them. You can turn it upside down and inside out but the bottom line is the upper ceiling most people are willing to pay for a Suburu is 30KUSD and that is the demographic that Subaru will cater to in order to stay competetive. The luxury items like NAV. and GPS are all ad'equately addressed in the aftermarket.
#1234 of 10838 bigelm - would like the see the '05 Legacy dimensions myself
May 04, 2004 (8:00 am)
The G35 is not that big on the inside. Thought the '05 Legacy will be a little roomier than the '04. Otherwise, the '04 Legacy is close in size to the interior of the G35.
Front Head Room: 38.1 in.
Front Leg Room: 43.3 in.
Rear Head Room: 36.6 in.
Rear Leg Room: 34.2 in.
Luggage Capacity: 12.4 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
Front Head Room: 40.1 in.
Front Leg Room: 43.9 in.
Rear Head Room: 37.9 in.
Rear Leg Room: 33.6 in.
Luggage Capacity: 14.8 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5
#1235 of 10838 Re: [ateixeira #1229]
May 04, 2004 (8:58 am)
"Garbage in, garbage out. Data is key, we agree, but who will truly give reliable data?
By the time the traffic info gets to you, it's no longer useful, you're already stuck in that traffic. I think it's very optimistic to think otherwise."
juice - the new tunnel through Boston - http://www.bigdig.com - has real time traffic information using sensors and cameras that allow the state to dispatch tow trucks and the such. In the future, it is supposed to be able to give info on variable message boards. I certainily hope they share the info with the media. In addition, this company - http://www.mobilitytechnologies.com/ - just installed their system in greater Boston that measures vehicle speed and volume and translates into a graphical view for TV stations willing to pay. Looks like they have the capability of eventually integrating with NAV's.
As you said, as long as the data is timely and valid it's useful.
#1236 of 10838 Real Time Traffic update
May 04, 2004 (8:59 am)
FWIW, there was a pilot program that ran in a few areas, and I believe it may have been modeled after the European systems. In Europe, Germany in particular, there are series of poles on the side of autobahn every 50 meters or so that counts the number of cars passing by and transmits to some sort of collection module/center which then broadcasts it over the radio. There is an optional module that works in conjunction with the NAV computer to display the result (higher count, slower speed) and the driver can go around it. While it is not perfect, it works quite well and is being used widely in Europe.
Also, I am not sure that NAV is that much of a distraction. While cell phone without hands free (not headsets, but total hands free by way of integration with the car, voice activation, etc) is illegal in many parts of Europe, NAV is not. I used it for 3 years in Germany and have not heard of NAV causing problems on autobahn where some sections are without speed limit. Indeed, voice guidance works very well.
May 04, 2004 (9:31 am)
So then they point down into my eyes.
Ever driven a Miata?
What we need are standard heights for headlights. Trucks are allowed to mount them way too high. Then the HIDs blind you completely.
OTOH, I've had considerate UPS drivers pull directly behind me and actually turn their headlights OFF. Very thoughtful.
G35 really has less rear legroom? Didn't seem like it.
rob: sounds great in theory, but I'll believe it when I see it. My guess is you'll have 30-60 minute old mis-information in practice.
Automated systems have more potential than high school interns typing in data from a traffic report, I'll admit.
Pat nailed it, though, there is a $30k psycological barrier with Subies. Face it, all of 3 people paid more than that for a Subie so far. SVX didn't sell. VDC didn't, either, though the LL Bean sold much better.
If we did see a HID option and a NAV option, let's be honest, where would it show up? You really think they'd offer those on the base Legacy GT?
Fat chance! Look at Subaru's track record. They would be expensive options on the VDC model only. Right now that's $33,395 for a 2005, plus freight, plus HID and NAV and you're talking...
That's my best guess. Still want it? Honestly?
I bet 6 people would pay that in the entire USA.